as an operator->sysadmin->devops I’m increasingly disconcerted by the rise of “devops” who can’t actually find their way around a Unix command prompt when it's important i realise "kids these days" but y'know this is why "bash" is now a listed skill - ThreadSky

davidgerard.co.uk • 14 days ago

as an operator->sysadmin->devops I’m increasingly disconcerted by the rise of “devops” who can’t actually find their way around a Unix command prompt when it's important

i realise "kids these days" but y'know this is why "bash" is now a listed skill

Comments

irc-was-better.bsky.social•14 days ago

My new manager was previously a sysadmin & developer, and actually understands source control and it’s glorious

irc-was-better.bsky.social•14 days ago

It’s amazing how dismissive of “scripting” people can be until you save them hours of clicking around a week by pulling data down from an API endpoint with a few lines of whatever

vegetablegremlin.bsky.social•14 days ago

I must be blessed because I’ve not run into anyone with a bad attitude toward scripting

ncweaver.skerry-tech.com•14 days ago

I don't force them to DO any (other more important programming assigments) but I was giving my lectures monday and today on the Unix command line and why it is so great to be able to do "for every computer in your fleet do this!"

davidgerard.co.uk•14 days ago

"unix was the first IDE" (and still is)

ncweaver.skerry-tech.com•14 days ago

Not a good one. For IDE its VSCode or JetBrains Crack, with ssh-based remote development for the *nix boxes in my life.

jjgdr.bsky.social•14 days ago

ssh -L

davidgerard.co.uk•14 days ago

but consider: everything is vim

ncweaver.skerry-tech.com•14 days ago

emacs is the one true editor as God intended.

blueskyeria.bsky.social•14 days ago

"bash" with 'intergrated AI prompt' would be hilarious next developement

davidgerard.co.uk•14 days ago

https://social.fthevenet.eu/@fred/statuses/01JV73T00BYDRWNRWA2278J1HP

blueskyeria.bsky.social•14 days ago

Har.

I guess, those are these promised high paid prompt engineering jobs in the future!

exys.org•14 days ago

Prompt injection engineering might have a real future. Imagine all the shells

serra2.bsky.social•14 days ago

I'm not great at it, but I know enough to do an okay job, and anything further is a Google away. No excuse to not at least know what it is.

gostack.bsky.social•14 days ago

If you don't sudo apt update are you even computering right now!?

zootius.bsky.social•14 days ago

concerning

aidan.skinner.me.uk•14 days ago

had to explain zgrep the other day when "and has this error occured before" elicited "I don't want to unzip all the log files before I read through them"

davidgerard.co.uk•14 days ago

oh good fucking lord

pileofgarbage.net•14 days ago

imo knowing your way around a shell should be a pre-req for DevOps, just like how knowing JSON/YAML is a pre-req, real fundamental stuff. when your CI/CD runner gets really fucked you'll deffo have to do a "docker exec -it runner sh" then "journalctl -xe" or "tail -n /var/log/messages" and so on

pileofgarbage.net•14 days ago

the only environment i can imagine where you can do DevOps and not know how to use a Linux shell is one where the pipelines are configured to not fail on error lol

davidgerard.co.uk•14 days ago

someone on mastodon pointed out the title (for this same job of "administrator who can use a fucking command line" that's existed for several decades) already moved to "SRE"

doriantaylor.com•14 days ago

yeah sre is older than devops (which didn't exist prior to 2008) but i thought the whole point of devops was the same people who wrote the code were responsible for running it

davidgerard.co.uk•14 days ago

yeah they tried that but it turned out that developing and running are two different jobs with different attitudes needed, even if it's the same person doing them

doriantaylor.com•14 days ago

the whole ^.*ops$ thing is weird to me anyway because i distinctly remember the original devops guy's presentations/writing and how it was about accountability on the part of devs rather than have them lob hand grenades over the wall (on their way to the pub) for ops to deal with

doriantaylor.com•14 days ago

(versus all subsequent opses seem to have forgotten that part and are all about sCaLe)

davidgerard.co.uk•14 days ago

siloing is a perpetual corporate drive

kshay.com•14 days ago

Not just attitudes—it’s a different set of tools and workflows, which having developers learn and use as like 5% of their job is terrible for expertise and efficiency. Makes much more sense (in an org of sufficient size) to have dedicated ops folks doing it all day as a vertical function

doriantaylor.com•14 days ago

i mean, i've done both, i'm just saying i'm old enough to remember the initial pitch for "devops"

typhonbaalhammon.bsky.social•14 days ago

Meanwhile https://rachelbythebay.com/w/2024/09/03/ops/

davidgerard.co.uk•14 days ago

>_<

szbalint.eu•14 days ago

There is a reason I ask some low-level questions like this on SRE interviews.

"Huh , how's that connection get established exactly?"

edfinnerty.bsky.social•14 days ago

DevOps shouldn't, but often does, denote a devaluation of systems skill in favor of having programmers (who might know a language like ruby or python and little else) do everything.

eightxeroxedbutts.bsky.social•13 days ago

Sysadmins have been outsourced to AWS

davidgerard.co.uk•13 days ago

it turns out

eightxeroxedbutts.bsky.social•13 days ago

They're expensive nerds who just sit around when nothing is broken

davidgerard.co.uk•14 days ago

but in general, everything is devalued as hard as possible

blueandmoreblue.bsky.social•14 days ago

“Bearded Unix Wizard” remains a terminological alternative.

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