I feel like an idiot for not spotting this but Eric’s sharper eyes figured out that MSG doesn’t actually fit on the blocks that the Grand Penn plan would move it to. Which, uh, - ThreadSky

ndhapple.bsky.social • 37 days ago

I feel like an idiot for not spotting this but Eric’s sharper eyes figured out that MSG doesn’t actually fit on the blocks that the Grand Penn plan would move it to.

Which, uh,

Reposted from Eric Kober

For City Journal, I wrote about why New York's Penn Station is so hard to fix:

www.city-journal.org/article/new-...

Comments

nilo.bsky.social•37 days ago

I’d been wondering about this!

gilmored85.bsky.social•37 days ago

Oh man, i noticed that as well. I thought "maybe theyre misstating the footprint that would be needed and i just didnt see it" but i guess not lol

aaronznj.bsky.social•36 days ago

“Why don’t we take Madison Square Garden, and push it somewhere else?!” Was never a real solution. Find a stadium-sized bit of vacant land with good road/transit access in NYC.

It’d just be saving Block 780 at the expense of destroying some other area that’s about as large.

uckema.com•36 days ago

There is none! Every transit accessible place is spoken for now

millienyc.bsky.social•37 days ago

Whenever I hear Penn Station, I get teary-eyed at the magnificence that was destroyed.
This piece from back in 2016...
https://www.nyhistory.org/blogs/penn-station-masterpiece

steveabt.bsky.social•37 days ago

I know I’m naive but it’s hard to believe this doesn’t cut the other way. It should be very easy to say: “if you want your property tax break, you need to move.”

ejk.bsky.social•37 days ago

Did Vishaan‘s version from a few years ago that moved the arena to the same site require a cantilever as well?

ndhapple.bsky.social•37 days ago

I don't remember, tbqh

ejk.bsky.social•37 days ago

Looks like Vishaan used a cantilever to make it work as well. https://newyorkyimby.com/2021/01/twin-supertalls-revealed-as-part-of-garden-city-possible-relocation-of-madison-square-garden-in-midtown-manhattan.html

ndhapple.bsky.social•37 days ago

Oh man

meehan.nyc•36 days ago

I think he misread the rendering. This clearly shows 33rd St demapped, not cantilevered over. The Hotel Pennsylvania lot is 400ft deep, and the current arena is 410ft in diameter (according to a source @progwml6.bsky.social found)

meehan.nyc•36 days ago

Now, that does raise land acquisition issues between 33rd and 34th! But geometrically, it's not that hard. Either they could cantilever over the 7th Ave sidewalk a bit, or they could build a slightly elliptical arena instead of a perfectly circular one

thelirrtoday.bsky.social•36 days ago

People say "move MSG" but they likely couldn't pick up and move the existing structure just like that. They would build a new area, which could be a different shape/size to fit the lot.

meehan.nyc•36 days ago

Exactly, but I think the original article mistakenly assumed that the base of the arena was supposed to fit entirely between 32nd and 33rd street

meehan.nyc•36 days ago

And that's a misreading of what the plan is even advocating for! A bit of an accidental strawman

thelirrtoday.bsky.social•36 days ago

Since we are 10,000 miles away from a concrete plan to actually move MSG, I can forgive a geometric miscalculation of a couple dozen feet

progwml6.bsky.social•36 days ago

This is the source to an engineering firm that was Involved in the 2010’s era overhaul https://www.severud.com/icons/madison-square-garden/

upzonenj.bsky.social•37 days ago

And isn't the Hotel Pennsylvania site already being redeveloped?

jackharman.bsky.social•36 days ago

No, they cancelled the plans. Currently looking to do a temporary facility there while they work out what to do long term

upzonenj.bsky.social•36 days ago

Very annoyed they tore it down, that was actually an iconic NY building as opposed to the crap that GVSHP advocates for.

ericgarment.bsky.social•37 days ago

more like Grand Standing, amirite

thenewjerseyer.bsky.social•37 days ago

Couldn’t they just use rolling stock able to operate on both third rail/variable power systems?

erickober.bsky.social•37 days ago

Thanks, 38 years as a city planner, you learn something.

ndhapple.bsky.social•37 days ago

I just figured it was architectural flourish that could be easily trimmed back 🙃

ndhapple.bsky.social•37 days ago

Anyways, Eric reaches basically the same conclusion that I reached, that the root cause of so many of Penn Station's problems — the narrow platforms — are not addressed by any of the reconstruction plans -- https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2025/04/21/deep-dive-how-will-sean-duffy-fix-penn-station

asherd.xyz•37 days ago

this is a solved problem

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