I agree (Fetterman in particular has been a huge disappointment). But making broad-brush generalizations about liberals, Dems, etc is simply not helpful when we have a far right party trying to drag the nation into fascism. Save the infighting for when Dems are actually in power! - ThreadSky

bookofoak.bsky.social • 4 days ago

I agree (Fetterman in particular has been a huge disappointment). But making broad-brush generalizations about liberals, Dems, etc is simply not helpful when we have a far right party trying to drag the nation into fascism. Save the infighting for when Dems are actually in power!

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modulusshift.bsky.social•4 days ago

now, while we're not in power, is the correct time to push the party to actually become something that can *win* the next election. Lest we run another "electable" candidate that can't actually win an election.

randomlybanned.bsky.social•4 days ago

I mean I don't disagree that we should always be pushing for better policies and messaging but infighting isn't super helpful in the face of potentially democracy ending levels of ignoring the law from this regime. We can push for better policy without infighting though.

modulusshift.bsky.social•4 days ago

I'm going to be honest, if we end up with Gov. Newsom leading in the primary after all this, turning the federal election into "I hate immigrants" vs "I hate trans people", I am going to regret every single word I left unsaid now, while it could still be prevented. "infighting" may save lives.

modulusshift.bsky.social•4 days ago

am I still looking for a protest to show up to this weekend in support of Newsom's fight in California, absolutely. will I say a kind word about the man once this is over? Not a chance in hell.

randomlybanned.bsky.social•4 days ago

If Newsom is the party choice then infight all you want that man is not worthy of running a McDonalds let alone a state or country. We aren't there yet though so why fight over nothing in these comments. What even is the infighting here we're advocating for?

modulusshift.bsky.social•4 days ago

the fact that "a liberal" should not be a primary-winning credential for a Democrat candidate, the same way that "a conservative" generally isn't enough to secure the Republican nomination on the other side.

modulusshift.bsky.social•4 days ago

it's a credit to the progressive wing of the party that we never coined an equivalent term to "RINO" despite how apt the acronym would be for some people, because we generally don't want to *actually* sabotage the party. in fact, I seem to remember something like that being aimed *at* us instead...

randomlybanned.bsky.social•4 days ago

I was livid when the corporate Voltron formed around Biden in the 2016 primary and he rose from no shot to shoe in for the nomination. I'm sure when we see the runners for the next primary the discourse will be far from civil, but I think the DNC are pretty undemocratic in that process.

bookofoak.bsky.social•4 days ago

Anything can happen but it’s useful to remember that Newsom has basically no connection to the Black voter base that decides most Dem presidential primaries. He’s excellent in a crisis like this but his actions these past few months don’t support the idea that he could deftly manage the ‘28 primary

bookofoak.bsky.social•4 days ago

Harris lost as part of a global backlash against incumbents post-Covid in a very pro-Trump media environment. There’s interesting data that voters in areas w/out local news swung heavily to Trump. Basically we don’t have a candidate problem, we have a media problem.

bookofoak.bsky.social•4 days ago

Dems should be pushing their organizations and donors to invest heavily in local news (especially in local news desserts) and independent media and explore better ways to engage on social media. High-info voters were Harris voters; we need to make more of such voters.

modulusshift.bsky.social•4 days ago

I don't disagree on any of this, and it's what makes my local newspaper's 2018 takeover by Gannett a real sore spot for me, I've been watching with interest the local publication that has popped up in the wake of that, hoping it's even half decent.

modulusshift.bsky.social•4 days ago

Regardless, I'm watching in abject terror as a candidate or two that not only just fail to inspire, but start to endorse actively harmful policies, start to go up in the party opinion polls. agh, I need to get back on answering YouGov surveys too, fuck.

bookofoak.bsky.social•4 days ago

Totally get the abject terror part. I believe this is mostly *also* a media problem - like the NYT will write an article about “Prominent Dems Say DEI Went Too Far” and if you read past the headline it’s just Fetterman and Moulton saying stupid stuff for attention again.

petalrose450.bsky.social•4 days ago

Nah she lost because Democrats sacked their winning strategy in favor of donor talking points, Walz was doing good on trans rights, and winning people over by pointing out how terrible Republicans are, yet they told him to stop.

bookofoak.bsky.social•4 days ago

Again, this is a media problem. Did the Harris campaign sideline Walz or did the media just stop covering him past the first week? Considering that they basically never covered Harris at all when she was the actual vice-president, I would bet on the latter.

petalrose450.bsky.social•4 days ago

Democrats have a long and storied history of self sabotage so probably the former, in fact don't quote me on this, but I recall hearing something about the Clinton campaign advisors literally telling him to stop saying it.

Either way it's a throw though, because they didn't double down on it.

petalrose450.bsky.social•4 days ago

Kamala could have scored major points by outright condemning Israel, yet she didn't, because it would upset the donors. The media is very pro Trump yes, but there was an opportunity to win anyways, and they threw instead.

bookofoak.bsky.social•4 days ago

This is a common argument but the post-election data just doesn’t back it up. I/P wasn’t decisive, even in MI.

petalrose450.bsky.social•4 days ago

That's true Democrats also would have needed to stand up for their constituents right to vote, instead of just letting Republicans nullify the votes of a bunch of marginalized people.

randomlybanned.bsky.social•4 days ago

Not sure what I said that was "infighting" maybe the inflection on "your" Dems was perceived as hostile but I only said that because I am not American, so they are not my party. I agree though, if you are against the MAGA fascists in this moment that is enough.

liz-parker.bsky.social•4 days ago

I was sitting next to one of those leftists ranting about both parties being the same, and I said "no, WE are not". I'm a Democrat and WE, the people in the Democratic party, are not anything like those in the GOP. I asked the person what they intend to change things, if not voting Dem?

whisperingsage.bsky.social•4 days ago

You're a registered Democratic voter, you're not in the party.

randomlybanned.bsky.social•4 days ago

I think this is in and of itself the issue, many people feel the democrats do not represent their interests (and the republicans are actively hostile to them) and are then left with no option. Elected Democrats see this dynamic play out and often go "well vote for me or bad thing will happen then."

bookofoak.bsky.social•4 days ago

But you have to demonstrate your vote is *gettable* and I feel like many far leftists forget that part. I

madsweetsting.bsky.social•4 days ago

Nah, plenty of leftists told them that support for genocide and failure to support transgender people was going to cost them votes. They got "shut up I'm talking" in response.

randomlybanned.bsky.social•4 days ago

Have to agree with sarakate, there are some pretty clear issues that Kamala refused to address that would have done a lot more than energize just "far leftists" Obviously some people are not going to move on some issues but genocide and human rights should be easy slam dunks for a "left" party.

bookofoak.bsky.social•4 days ago

I agree that Kamala should have handled I/P with more moral clarity, though she did only have a 100 days to run a campaign. The post-election data also shows that I/P wasn’t decisive, even in MI. The main split was among high-info voters and “vibes” voters.

jpofferz.bsky.social•4 days ago

Maybe not directly decisive in itself to a lot of voters, but Biden/Kamala sending cops and Feds onto protestors of genocide, while also shaming most of them and chastising them, certainly was not winning over any “leftist”/“progressive” and didn’t help with differentiating them from Trump

randomlybanned.bsky.social•4 days ago

Israel/Palestine itself may not have been the issue but the failure to split from Biden on that and most issues fueled the incumbency bias issue. Biden hampered Kamalas campaign by refusing to drop out and then hovering over her like a possessing ghost on policy when he finally did drop out.

shadowofthedrake.bsky.social•4 days ago

The issue you seem to be overlooking is that fascism grows in the failures of liberalism. Liberal economics leave people behind, those people get angry, and then some dipshit convinces them it's the fault of minorities they can get rid of to make things better

bookofoak.bsky.social•4 days ago

Low income wages rose for the first time in 40 years under the Biden administration and there was every indication that Harris was going to continue and expand on those economic policies.

shadowofthedrake.bsky.social•4 days ago

40 years of liberal/neoliberal economics failing people isn't going to be fixed by a slight spike at the end AFTER the open embrace of fascism has already become mainstream

bookofoak.bsky.social•3 days ago

Quick question, what party has been in power for the last several recessions? Follow-up, which party passed major healthcare reform and Medicaid expansion 15 years ago? Bonus round, who was elected twice w/ large majorities 40 years ago?

shadowofthedrake.bsky.social•3 days ago

And yet here we are with fascism creeping in as the wealth gap widens faster than ever

bookofoak.bsky.social•3 days ago

Powerful imagery, but your response doesn’t seem to answer the prompt. You also do not make the connection between liberal policy and the rise of fascism clear, much less describe how the wealth gap leads to fascism. 2/10, please see me in office hours if you have questions about this feedback.

logan.hater.club•4 days ago

Treating political groups like they are football teams to rally behind is why we are where we are. Right is right and wrong is wrong. Grow a pair

brendonbouzard.bsky.social•4 days ago

I just spent four years being told it was an inconvenient time to criticize Joe Biden because we had to deal with Trump. It seems like there's never a good time for what you call infighting.

mattprorok.bsky.social•4 days ago

It's been "not the right time" since my first election in 2000.

bookofoak.bsky.social•4 days ago

Trump is a pretty unique and perilous enemy to democracy in modern American history. That said, I think it was fine to criticize Biden when he was in power and plenty of people did, from all sides. It’s also fine to criticize Newsom now when he does dumb shit AND to praise him when he fights instead

jpofferz.bsky.social•4 days ago

You say that, but the reality is, majority of liberals told leftists to shut up and “give him time”

jpofferz.bsky.social•4 days ago

It’s great you weren’t one of them, but “us waiting” until a Dem is elected won’t fucking do anything, because no one’s gonna listen, and we’ll just be told what we were told with Biden.

petalrose450.bsky.social•4 days ago

Well that's the thing, liberals and progressives are separate groups within the Democratic party, the progressives are the ones holding the lines on the issue, liberals are the ones being pathetic.

petalrose450.bsky.social•4 days ago

but they all get broad brushed as liberals because the surrounding politics is garbage, as nobody knows what anything means.

petalrose450.bsky.social•4 days ago

It's effectively the same as when you say communist each person has their own definition based on vibes and vibes alone, and so when leftists talk about the like principles of the actual definition, people get confused.

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