Like, “Everything will be magically better with no tradeoffs” is not true, not how the world works, and that kind of aggressive self-deception seems like it WEAKENS efforts for reform by leaving them defenseless against easily foreseeable criticisms
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truthfully, we spend one heck of a lot less for healthcare per person than you do, have a higher life expectancy, and I honestly have not waited any length of time for anything urgent. it really isn’t anything to fear. too many people make appalling amounts of money in your for-profit system, though
This is the most frustrating thread because it’s full of people that I would probably vote with on actual policy, but we never get that far because they can’t stop screeching irrationally about how current healthcare is the worst thing in the history of the universe
I don’t know of anyone serious suggesting there are zero ripple effects. But on balance, it’s a no brainer. Hopefully my children’s generation will have more courage on healthcare and guns. My generation failed. 👎🏽
More importantly, even if single-payer actually improved everything and worsened nothing, it still wouldn't eliminate all the problems & tradeoffs intrinsic to healthcare (or for that matter any other endeavor).
If someone needs a $10M lifesaving treatment, single-payer won't make it cost $0.
Stuff is expensive. If you cover a $10M treatment, that's $10M less you have to spend on nurse wages; and more/better nurses probably save more lives than a single long-shot treatment.
Or you can try to have a cadillac program that really DOES do everything; but it's super expensive.
Yup, which is why a public option is generally somewhat better. Most people would be better off under single-payer. Most people won't be *radically* better off, because the core issues (healthcare is expensive) have to be grappled with by any system, and impose limits on what you're able to do.
(Also, most people won't be radically better off because most people are already doing pretty okay in the current system. It's not great but humanity got through the Middle Ages with a lot less than this!)
There's also the problem that healthcare in the US is expensive for a bunch of reasons unrelated to the lack of single payer. Single payer will not, eg, retroactively refit hospitals to support a lower staff to patient ratio.
In fairness, you are engaging with people whose plan to deal with criticism for their most idealistic aims is "punish my critics." That works. Until it doesn't.
the only thing that's certain is they're aiming a little higher than the american health care system, but go ahead and keep insisting that nothing can ever get better and see how many electoral votes the next dem candidate gets
1) I did not insist nothing can get better. 2) The fate of the Democratic party does not rest on my bluesky posts. 3) The explicit communist poster does not just want something a little better than the US healthcare system.
That's literally what Will has been advocating for. The people disagreeing with him either don't care about policies all, or are advocating for something radically different than, eg, the French health care system.
If your friend is infamous in your social circle due to a couple of really messy breakups and an arrest for assault, are you going to get further by denying they ever happened, or by trying to put them in context and explain his side of it?
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so, yes
If someone needs a $10M lifesaving treatment, single-payer won't make it cost $0.
Or you can try to have a cadillac program that really DOES do everything; but it's super expensive.
Which is itself a big deal, because anti-poverty programs might get you better health outcomes than deluxe emergency rooms!
Single payer could say its too expensive, this money should go to treat much cheaper lifesaving treatments.
The more the government is involved in these decisions, the more politicised they get. The result is not always great.
Just because you live in a country with socialised medicine doesn't mean life saving care won't be denied so the rich can get richer, sadly.
"oh man you should date my friend! he's so cool. but, there are serious problems as well,"