That's not what's happening. These aren't people who wouldn't vaccinate their children doing so. These are people who would have gotten their kids vaccinated at the scheduld time doing it early because their babies are now exposed to an outbreak.
That’s still what’s happening. The people who have the luxury belief are establishing the environment in which the babies get it. The babies would otherwise be safe, but people have decided to go anti-vaxx.
Low prevalence makes ambivalent vaccinators, ambivalent vaccinators make high incidence, high incidence makes motivated vaccinators, motivated vaccinators make low prevalence. Low prevalence…
It also indicates that those parents in Texas understand science better than our HHS Secretary. I bet they didn’t inject themselves with Lysol during Covid either.
And crass ignorance regarding herd immunity and it's necessity to protect the whole population. Don't they teach the basics of vaccination in schools any more?
Does anyone have actually useful numbers for what's happening in Texas with measles vaccination the last few months?
The phenomenon described in the headline doesn't count; it's parents getting their kids vaccinated early, most of whom would otherwise have gotten their kids vaccinated on schedule.
It was true of covid, too. So many antivax covid patients begged for the vaccine before they fixed. They knew it worked and was safe; opposition was malicious, motivated ignorance
probably has something to do with vaccines being most useful against viruses, and foxholes being more about danger from ordinance and bacterial infection. if i had to guess, anyway.
Pretty sure G Orwell said something similar about pacifism, how it was a luxury belief for the well to do who never had to face real danger
or words to that effect
This is fundamental hypocrisy. Anti-Vax minds condemn science often choosing faith to intervene in one way or the other. So once the situation gets ‘real’ you throw away your beliefs to counter ‘natural selection’. You anti science freaks please stop taking your Meds and let nature take its course
My wife once took a course on math of ecology that covered it: Antivax is considered an "evolutionary game theory" puzzle, as there is a vaccination level where the minimal risks & side-effects of vaccines mean that it's beneficial to you to free-ride on the vaccinated. That level is very high.
I'd imagine that it parallels the herd immunity level, which for measles is at least 95%. If more than 95% of the population is vaxxed, you have a good chance of being a profitable free-rider, but it really doesn't take many people following your lead before it becomes Real Bad.
Right but some percent of people the vaccines don't work well or wanned or can't get vaccinated. So if a person can get vaccinated and they think they are in this 5% - they probably aren't.
Saw this plenty of times during the worst of COVID. patients who had refused to get the vaccination begging for antivirals that never worked. As soon as you’re sick or scared the calculations change dramatically.
A functioning government would do everything it possibly could to inform the public about health hazards, and give fact based actions they should take to protect themselves and their families. People shouldn’t have to die for folks to get the message.
Yep. The way I see it is that they have reaped the benefit of heard immunity for so long that they believe the risk of the diseases does not exist anymore, therefore vaccines are unnecessary.
Anti-vaxxers are the epitome of a first world problem.
I was just thinking about this. The reason anti-vaxxers can convince themselves there's no danger is that *everyone else* is getting the damn shots. The only thing that would convince them is if we all stopped and they *they* got sick, but we're reasonable and humane, so we're NOT going to do that.
I was watching an old ER episode from around 2001 and a kid came into the ER with Measles, family was staunchly anti-vax, parents were white collar, kid ends up dying. I'm trying to remember back and whether the anti-vax movement was a thing back then.
I'm glad to hear vaxx rates improved. I got a booster last year and I'm a "senior." My mom had 5 kids, so me being the last meant she never worried much abt childhood illness....except for measles. I recall her keeping me home for days b/c it was in the school/neighbourhood. She NEVER did that.
Yep, not vaccinating your kids is actually a very rational decision if you’re the first to do it. (Why chance it if there’s herd immunity and literally any risk at all from doing it?) But the rationality breaks down as it catches on.
its rude to people who really cant take the risk or are immunocompromised too - even if you think you're in the 5% freeriders, you probably shouldn't be taking the free spot from some kid with cancer or similar
Why doesn’t the second group just get vaccinated and lie about it? If you don’t respect the safety of others then you don’t respect honesty. It would be easier to keep yourself safe and lie to the people you want clout from.
Isn't this a relief though? Some of the antivax discourse I've seen actually argued it was good that "weak" kids died. This shows people still care for their children.
It’s probably good that most anti-vaxxers are soft anti-vaxxers, but I don’t know what to do about them longterm really. They think vaccines work but would rather benefit from everybody else shouldering the costs and/or risks
Yes, and it also shows that idiots have to touch that hot stove once to prove it burns, instead of listening to scientists and historians that told them "ya know if you touch that it will burn you".
They needed a large nearby outbreak of a preventable disease to do the right thing.
I'm afraid that's the human condition. People did not use seatbelts until they were cooerced. I don't know that many who are currently vaccinated would have been if they had not been required for school.
People haven't changed, but the people selected to be in charge have changed dramatically.
Another thing that changed the normality of seatbelts was a successful advertising campaign, aimed at children, to get them to normalize wearing seatbelts and shaming their parents for not wearing seatbelts. That type of success is why the GOP hates children's educational TV so much.
Thats why it started with liberal hippie california moms. They had the money, the luxury, the independence, and the FU money to think that they were protected from everybody else.
Everyone’s a libertarian until they need something
Comments
"the percentage of 6-month-old babies in Texas getting their measles vaccination in April increased by more than 30 times the prior year’s average"
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/texas-measles-outbreak-vaccine-effort-parents-babies-rcna207819
The phenomenon described in the headline doesn't count; it's parents getting their kids vaccinated early, most of whom would otherwise have gotten their kids vaccinated on schedule.
or words to that effect
Please use Alt text.
Anti-vaxxers are the epitome of a first world problem.
2 kids did of measles out of 350 million, big deal
because most kids are vaccinated and vaccines work.
However, it's possible that seeing what happened to them is having an appropriate effect on others.
The others are parents who derive social status from their peer group for their lifestyle.
The second group will give in if the going gets tough.
They needed a large nearby outbreak of a preventable disease to do the right thing.
People haven't changed, but the people selected to be in charge have changed dramatically.
Everyone’s a libertarian until they need something