Still amazed that the Southampton penalty wasn't overturned yesterday. If it is as close as they're saying and they weren't sure if it was inside or out, you can't possibly award a penalty. - ThreadSky

sammcguire90.bsky.social • 210 days ago

Still amazed that the Southampton penalty wasn't overturned yesterday.

If it is as close as they're saying and they weren't sure if it was inside or out, you can't possibly award a penalty.

Comments

sjleelfc.bsky.social•210 days ago

Could have got the lines out given it was a factual measurement decision. Shite!

andylfc27.bsky.social•210 days ago

Was the on field decision a penalty? I can't remember. If so, I guess they are unsure if his little toe is on the line, in which case it's a pen. I bet if the on field decision was a free kick, it would not be turned into a penalty and would stay a FK. Image looks outside, but hard to say 100% cert

yourmatefrank.bsky.social•210 days ago

It was yeah. It’s a fucking stupid rule anyway and the whole penalty system is a joke. He’s prevented from entering the box with multiple defenders around him so the punishment is a shot at goal where you’re enormously likely to score? It’s nuts

andylfc27.bsky.social•210 days ago

Yeah ref should have called the foul and let VAR decide whether it was inside the box or not, guarantee if that is given as a free kick, VAR doesn't change it.

yourmatefrank.bsky.social•210 days ago

I mean, you could tell within 5 minutes the ref was shit. Dishing out bookings for fuck all but when Lallana nearly snaps Gravenberch’s ankle he bottles it. Another one off the production line of shite refs.

andylfc27.bsky.social•210 days ago

He is very young I think he only started in the Prem last season - whilst I do think we should bin off the PGMOL, bring in European refs and have a separate team for VAR, it is nice to see new refs coming through, hopefully with more experience he will improve tho!

lfcexcelgenius.bsky.social•210 days ago

Your amazed at that, wait until you see what they do to us next week

bitsyvonmuffling.bsky.social•210 days ago

I was watching a US stream and they said that it was more VAR couldn't overturn the on-field decision as the on-field decision wasn't clearly/obviously wrong. But yeah, I was amazed. Well not amazed because we're used to this crap aren't we, but still bemused.

redfacedredfan.bsky.social•210 days ago

I’ve rewatched it so many times and I can see why the ref gave it but I’m absolutely baffled by VAR not overturning it, like I swear I feel dumb and like I’m being gaslighted because it’s outside the box???

willwagon.bsky.social•210 days ago

Both players were outside the box!
I repeat BOTH outside

The Michael Oliver effect

bootlebee.bsky.social•210 days ago

Correct, but he gave a penalty and it's not a clear and obv error!

grumzy.bsky.social•210 days ago

If VAR can't say either way, then they need to stick with the refs decision. If there was no VAR, it would have been a penalty, so that's the logic I use to keep sane. I also wonder if it's a free kick does Robbo get sent off for DOGSO? He'd be clean through. Is it any different to VVD v Newcastle?

arsenalanother.bsky.social•210 days ago

Understand my obvious bias here, but the latter sentence there sounds like an excellent argument for sticking with the on field decision to me.

sammcguire90.bsky.social•210 days ago

Usually I'd agree. But you're basically guessing as to whether it was a penalty or not. Can't be doing that in a low scoring game. Has to be a definite, no?

arsenalanother.bsky.social•210 days ago

I don't think so - not giving a penalty is a decision as well, so you can levy the same argument to denying southampton a penalty - have to be sure given the importance of the goal.

Real issue to me is there's no definite here - which is what VAR is supposed to be for, so have to go with the ref.

punitanasazi.bsky.social•210 days ago

The laws of the game simply do not allow VAR to be objective on every aspect. What's needed is better referees, or even the onfield ref actively referring a decision to VAR to double check. I don't see the problem with such a system. VAR run checks while game is in play anyway

arsenalanother.bsky.social•210 days ago

I know - my latter point was not that VAR is supposed to be make every decision objectively correct, but rather that its only for the scenarios when you can make an obvious wrong, right.

The current system is a double check - just with a barrier to entry, subjective decisions remain just that.

yourmatefrank.bsky.social•210 days ago

My issue isn’t really even with the decision but more the use of VAR. They can use it to determine that that’s a penalty but they can’t use it to flag that Lallana absolutely should’ve gone in the first half? What’s the sense in it?

arsenalanother.bsky.social•210 days ago

Yeah I hear that, I've many a gripe with the application of VAR in general as well, but just in this case, I don't think it could have done anything 'more accurate' - so have to go with the ref's call.

Welcome to disagree with the ref mind, we all do on our day.

yourmatefrank.bsky.social•210 days ago

I mean, it’s a stupid rule and it’s not the only one. A foul in that area of the pitch shouldn’t result in a shot on goal in which you’re very likely to score. I feel the same way about a lot of handballs, you’ve got teams a lot of the time being incredibly harshly punished for really, nothing.

robsabbaggio.bsky.social•210 days ago

I can see the logic of deferring to the on-field decision. But this, when combined with the "high bar" for VAR, means we get maximum annoyance from VAR but less benefit from error corrections.

There just doesnt seem to be any consistency in how much scrutiny gets applied to an incident.

lfcgarrett.bsky.social•209 days ago

The explanation was that they didn't have the evidence that the contact didn't continue into the box, which sounds wild, and it kind of is, but it's also correctly applying the protocol, and I for one, reckon Michael Oliver might be the only proper professional in the PGMOL and he's only an okay ref

lfcgarrett.bsky.social•209 days ago

Never a pen tho

mitch-in-time.bsky.social•210 days ago

On my stream yesterday, the commentator said the VAR input was that “there wasn’t enough evidence to show that the foul didn’t continue into the box”. Still trying to decipher that double speak.

elsocialista.bsky.social•210 days ago

That’s not the protocol tho

It’s the same as rugby league and cricket

They go with the on field decision

It’s bobbins but that’s the fact

thunderchild75.bsky.social•210 days ago

Yes the umpire call, which is quite frankly ridiculous as it could still be wrong

elsocialista.bsky.social•210 days ago

It is utterly ridiculous

geemack.bsky.social•209 days ago

I'm not mad at it. The ref gave it. VAR is for clear and obvious errors. That's really close to the criteria, but sticking with the on field decision was the right call. Blame the EPL for not investing in better tech. It's available.

psveagle.bsky.social•210 days ago

I think if penalties are saved that's should be a goal kick too tbh.

codeblackdirective.bsky.social•210 days ago

It wasn't a penalty

juza23.bsky.social•210 days ago

The VAR didn’t award the penalty, the referee did.

VAR is only meant to overturn if there is proof the ref got it wrong, and it’s close enough that they can’t say for sure it was outside of the line.

toffybolox.bsky.social•210 days ago

You shouldn't overturn an on field decision unless you are 100% certain that it was wrong.

sammcguire90.bsky.social•210 days ago

But the official can't be 100% sure it was in the box

toffybolox.bsky.social•210 days ago

He made a judgement call, we both think that was incorrect but that was his decision and it should not be amended unless there is concrete evidence that he was wrong.
Refereeing an EPL game is a difficult job, especially with the pace the game is played at, and these calls are the hardest to make

therealgeebers.bsky.social•210 days ago

I “think” (can’t tell from the coverage) that the Ref also looked at the Lino … that makes two on field assessments.

I didn’t see enough in the replay to change the decision … and I’m as red as they come.

I’d be gutted if we’d been awarded that and it was overturned.

Poor passage of play for us

yourmatefrank.bsky.social•210 days ago

Just another one of those things that if it were any other team in the league there would’ve been a meltdown, but because it’s Liverpool everyone seems to think it’s completely normal. It was a fucking scandalous decision.

gulinho.bsky.social•210 days ago

Reeks of the good ol boys club seeking retribution for one of their own.

bobby-cobb.bsky.social•210 days ago

There will likely be a clarification made on the ruling for future awards that are similar saying exactly this… you know, after it’s already affected us

uh-huh-him.bsky.social•210 days ago

Ironically Southampton were given a penalty against us (Brighton) in 2020, where VAR checked but wrongly adjudged it to be on the line.
Southampton scored it and won the game 1-2

One of our many apology letters from PGMOL after that one.

bobby-cobb.bsky.social•210 days ago

Well they’re nothing if not consistent at least 😂🤦🏼‍♂️

justlubomerkov.bsky.social•210 days ago

If VAR is not sure, the call on the pitch stands.

sammcguire90.bsky.social•209 days ago

I know, I know. Just such fine margins shouldn't result in a penalty imo.

justlubomerkov.bsky.social•209 days ago

I get that. But in reality, many marginal calls result in penalties. Just meant that in this situation, I understand why VAR did not intervene.

simonkro.bsky.social•209 days ago

Can’t say I have looked into whether the decision was technically sound, but was it a correct interpretation to say the foul occurred outside the box and continued into it?

That is what they decided.

If that’s the case, I feel that has happened to us countless times and never been paid similarly.

justlubomerkov.bsky.social•209 days ago

The VAR position was that it was not possible to decide whether the ref’s decision was wrong. Therefore VAR could not overturn it.

sammcguire90.bsky.social•209 days ago

Not that marginal though mate.

justlubomerkov.bsky.social•209 days ago

We literally had a penalty being given to Sheffield United once where the foul was clearly and obviously outside the box and not by a small margin. 😂 in this case, based on the images they showed on TV, I could see why VAR decided not to intervene. It was not egregious.

rgreeko.bsky.social•209 days ago

Should it have been a penalty? No. Does rank anywhere higher than "mildly annoying" in the hierarchy of officiating bullshit Liverpool have been subjected to over the years? I genuinely don't think so.

socrates80.bsky.social•209 days ago

Don’t tell this to Arsenal fans though 😏 Have it on good authority they’re the most wronged club since the 19th century

sammcguire90.bsky.social•209 days ago

Oh, yeah, it doesn't. Just nonsense though, isn't it 🥲

rgreeko.bsky.social•210 days ago

Exactly. Had it been whistled as a foul, the VAR wouldn't be recommending a penalty.

Well, actually, you never know... but they shouldn't, based on guidance.

rgreeko.bsky.social•210 days ago

(A foul outside the penalty area, obviously.)

justlubomerkov.bsky.social•210 days ago

Basically, yes. If VAR felt there was an error (ie, the foul was clearly outside the box) then it would be different. But on the available evidence, VAR cannot conclusively overturn.

wizardmgs.bsky.social•210 days ago

Surely the off side technology could conclusively prove if it was in or out the box?

justlubomerkov.bsky.social•210 days ago

Theoretically. If the semi automatic technology were implemented in the PL and were calibrated to evaluate such decisions in addition to offsides 😉

stevohodson.bsky.social•210 days ago

I don’t mind so much if it was so close that the on-field decision is the deciding factor, but from the different angles I couldn’t figure out why it wasn’t given as a free kick. It was like they felt that because the foul started outside but continued inside, that it’s a pen (like that’s the rule?)

blewtaslfc.bsky.social•210 days ago

I’m quite over the penalty decision - as strange as it was. I felt we got away with one in the 2nd half with Kelleher so it kinda evens itself up.

What I am baffled by is Lallana not being sent off. How that wasn’t a red card is a genuine mystery to me. Awful decision

dave-almighty.bsky.social•210 days ago

So I felt the Robbo one was a penalty. I’d have wanted it for us.
Lallana was a red.
Kweev one was a penalty.
Nunez was fouled before the handball.
Mo was also pulled over in the area.

sammcguire90.bsky.social•210 days ago

Lallana defo a red. Kelleher one was a stonewall penalty imo. Agree on the Nunez one. Can't remember Mo. I just can't say the Robbo one was a penalty because it looks outside the box.

dave-almighty.bsky.social•210 days ago

If my understanding is right.

The line is the refs and Robbos boot is on the line. So that is in the box by that definition. The players then both fall into the box. So it starts technically in the box and continues into it. I’d have wanted it.

Does Dibling remind you of Waddle?

blewtaslfc.bsky.social•210 days ago

It was very very close to the white line - if you are on it then it’s a pen. I felt it was just outside, but literally by a slight one!

The Lallana one was similar to Semado’s at Anfield last season - and was a straight red with no complaints.

Will have to watch it back for the others haha!

dave-almighty.bsky.social•210 days ago

Mo gets grabbed round the neck and thrown over. It’s one of those things that happen to Mo ten times a match that is never a foul against him.

shaneored.bsky.social•209 days ago

I think this is where the grey area around the "sticking with the on-field decision" becomes problematic. They were spending more time looking the contact and the decision as a foul than they were whether it was actually in the box. At the very least the ref should have been sent to the monitor.

moin2.bsky.social•210 days ago

It was a clear free kick haha 😂

jkpkrn.bsky.social•210 days ago

I’m not sure I’m that mad at this one as I usually am. VAR is not there to referee or re-referee the game. The lino tells the ref he thinks it’s in the box, so without VAR it’s a pen. VAR can’t really tell so they stick with the on field call.

The lino probably shouldn’t give it like but…

sammcguire90.bsky.social•210 days ago

Just feels mad that you're giving a team a 75% of scoring without being sure it is inside the box.

ro-dders.bsky.social•210 days ago

And yet they can do an offside to the slimmest of margins. Doesn't really stack up IMO

uh-huh-him.bsky.social•210 days ago

Premier League real xg at Penalties is closer to 90%

blunderball.bsky.social•210 days ago

Umpires call is a standard in many sports for this stuff.

jkpkrn.bsky.social•210 days ago

It feels mad because it is, but it’s also the fairest outcome once the Lino has decided to be a prick.

sammcguire90.bsky.social•210 days ago

I guess so, yeah. Just massively flawed, again.

docfos.bsky.social•210 days ago

Your 2nd sentence doesn't work for refereeing there. If they weren't sure, they stick to the call real time. (it wasn't a pen but I get it being debatable because contact continues over the line)

grautwok.bsky.social•210 days ago

I'm personally of the belief that doubt should always favor the attacking side. Yeah, it's frustrating when it goes against your team, but it would most likely lead to more entertaining games overall

stevend1977.bsky.social•210 days ago

It's crazy that they've backed themselves into this corner, and I do think it was outside the box, but bizarrely with how the guidelines are I don't blame VAR for not over ruling if not 100% certain.

andkar.bsky.social•210 days ago

But VAR checking and over turning one mm if its offside..

stevend1977.bsky.social•210 days ago

I've personally not got an issue with that aspect of it, most sports have a tolerance for tight calls. Cricket has umpires call, rugby league asks the ref to make a decision on a try and it is only overturned if an angle exists which comprehensively proves they are wrong.

andkar.bsky.social•210 days ago

Reading it like that makes sense. Still prefer it without VAR like here in Sweden. Lots of annoying Big mistakes but you can be instantly 100% happy when your team score and not waiting for Tierney to make you miserable.

stevend1977.bsky.social•210 days ago

I understood why VAR was needed, some huge calls were wrong, but we were told it would only overturn clear and obvious errors, not automatically look at every single incident in the hope of finding an infringement

andkar.bsky.social•210 days ago

Let's just keep on winning, then we can all agree on how brilliant that is!

stevend1977.bsky.social•210 days ago

Different tech for different incidents isn't it and that's where some frustrations arise I think. The offside system is (Apparently) good enough and tailored to such precise measurements, the standard cams aren't, so the task is to comprehensively rule they were wrong, if they can't they stick

andkar.bsky.social•210 days ago

Wish i was so trusting. I dont really believe that its clinical enough in measuring the moment the ball leave the passer of the ball to make it about 1mm. Probably just me being old and grumpy.

stevend1977.bsky.social•210 days ago

Oh mate trust me, that word 'apparently' was doing a lot of heavy lifting in my reply. I honestly think they've just gone so far in the wrong direction with it and are tying themselves in knots to try and justify decisions.

sammcguire90.bsky.social•209 days ago

Yeah, I agree, just seems mental that they weren't sure yet the penalty was awarded.

stevend1977.bsky.social•210 days ago

I think it goes back to the not re-reffing the game and if in doubt stick with the initial call. The moment they take isn't necessarily the first contact, it's the first contact of the foul. They touched boots outside the box, but the shin could have caused the foul, and that was on the line.

ska001.bsky.social•210 days ago

It’s probably more the fault of the ref than VAR. He was clearly in doubt and didn’t see it, which makes it puzzling he would then decide to go for a penalty and make it harder for VAR to “clear and obviously” change it, rather than the other way around

stevenbarrett.bsky.social•210 days ago

Onfield decision was penalty. There has to be evidence that it wasn’t.

I thought it was on the line, which is a penalty

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