Further politics Star Wars hot take: every Jedi who fights in the Clone Wars was a neoconservative, and the ones who changed their ideology still counted as neoconservatives in the war, and in fact Ahsoka canon pretty plainly is an example of Ahsoka’s neocon -> liberal shift. - ThreadSky

eleanor.lockhart.contact • 10 days ago

Further politics Star Wars hot take: every Jedi who fights in the Clone Wars was a neoconservative, and the ones who changed their ideology still counted as neoconservatives in the war, and in fact Ahsoka canon pretty plainly is an example of Ahsoka’s neocon -> liberal shift.

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townsquare.bsky.social•10 days ago

I'm not saying you're wrong, but they were ensnared into Palpatine's trap by the Clone Wars. Ordinarily, the Jedi are peacekeepers. Yet in war, there is no peace to keep. So, they become soldiers & generals, which causes them to fall from the Jedi Way. They still had to do their duty.

runefar.bsky.social•10 days ago

Plus it could be seen as playing down the extent to which liberals and leftists are not immune to metadehumanization or that there are also liberal cultures that take from conservative elements in such a matter. Afterall Lucas existed in Marin County culture which has these pseudo spirtual elements

bmoregabe.bsky.social•10 days ago

The social democrat->neoliberal->FDR Democrat evolution in a lifetime has been v interesting, maybe unsurprising knowing the identities of those who’ve made the transformation.

uckema.com•10 days ago

This is literally the text of the clone wars TV series, rebels, count Doku literally walks up to the camera like 2x in the movies (the scene at the end of attack of the clones and right before the duel)

uckema.com•10 days ago

Out of universe GL would say this because he’s a giga lib

eleanor.lockhart.contact•10 days ago

Right andthe writers,like the writers of most of the major general audience Disney franchise things,are very clearly liberals who lean left enough to think things like “colonialism is systematic resource extraction and destruction of cultures,” and they’ve spent the past decade on that specifically

rvaux16.bsky.social•10 days ago

Great read! There's a scene in Obi-Wan Kenobi where he can't quite remember his biological family. The Jedi took him away before he could form any strong memories. I've always found the moment unsettling for the exact reasons you're describing.

eleanor.lockhart.contact•10 days ago

It’s actually arguable that the Jedi in the Clone Wars were already fascists, because of their willingness to use both completely unambiguous child soldiers (teenage Padawans) or arguable child soldiers (clones, not analogous to real life), but I’m going to acknowledge but reject that argument

eleanor.lockhart.contact•10 days ago

But I will say that the fact is that there was not a sufficient causus belli to compare the Galactic Civil War to the US Civil War, and there was a strong cultural argument for the justification of the Separatists *in Star Wars and very specifically not at all like the real US*

thalantos.bsky.social•10 days ago

I mean, the clone troopers might be arguable or not whether they are child soldiers, but they are absolutely slave soldiers, which uh.....makes their being an analogue for the Union an ill fit

eleanor.lockhart.contact•10 days ago

And the war was ultimately based on inaccurate information that was presented with intent to deceive, but even if it had been true support for it would only have been justified for those who believe that a war over territory and principles is justified and reject cultural relativism

eleanor.lockhart.contact•10 days ago

Also, the Jedi are a conservative religious order; the fact that Lucas thinks they can have sex and that this is true in canon doesn’t really change that and I also don’t think it makes them bad

This is also true of the Mandalorians, textually, except they veer much closer to fascist theocracy

eleanor.lockhart.contact•10 days ago

Fun fact that will make sense to more people than it did when I pointed it out before: in the game version of The Last of Us 2, one of the Seraphite leaders who tries to kill the protagonists with a giant hammer is portrayed by the woman who plays the Armorer in The Mandalorian

eleanor.lockhart.contact•10 days ago

The Jedi are a religious order that believes truth is knowable and that the divine order determines the hierarchy of life, who live and work in strongly hierarchical living arrangements prescribed by centuries of practice, they are conservatives.

runefar.bsky.social•10 days ago

Where would you place barris offee?

alias-wolfgang.bsky.social•10 days ago

Question! Where would you place Qui-Gon politically? I remember reading that if he had been alone he would have very quickly seen through the ruse of the Clone Wars, so it's got me curious as to his position in this.

lurks-no-more.bsky.social•10 days ago

If I recall Jedi philosophy and "theology" correct, there were basically two complementary views of the Force: the Living Force, and the Unifying Force, with the former being more down-to-Earth and focused on the connections of the Force between living beings.

lurks-no-more.bsky.social•10 days ago

While the latter was a more "cosmic" and abstract view of the Force. And it was the one that was eventually embraced by the majority of the Jedi Order, as they became more aloof from the rest of the galaxy and more focused on purity and prophecy and abstract principles.

lurks-no-more.bsky.social•10 days ago

It's kind of Chaotic Good vs Lawful Good division, if you will. And Qui-Gon Jinn was, again IIRC, one of the last major Jedi Masters who subscribed wholly to the Living Force view of things.

lurks-no-more.bsky.social•10 days ago

He would have been just the right Master for Anakin, able to empathize with him better than most of the top Jedi, more willing to bend the rules for good cause, and all-around better fit with Anakin. Which is why his death was, ultimately, such a coup for Palpatine.

lurks-no-more.bsky.social•10 days ago

Getting rid of Qui-Gon was necessary for other reasons. He *would* have not just seen the moral trap the Clone Wars presented to the Jedi, but quite possibly found a way out of it. And with his Living Force beliefs, he would have been less dependent on foresight, which Palpatine could blot out.

eleanor.lockhart.contact•10 days ago

He’s basically a heretic! He’s like a Franciscan who spent a bunch of time on one of his missions doing ahayuasca and nobody in the order really trusts him and he definitely would support ordaining women as deacons and also because the writers are canonically libs he’s right

ed3d.net•10 days ago

Qui-Gon as a weird almost-heretic who's better attuned than any of the Council transcends text, it's supertext

finfanfoust.bsky.social•10 days ago

Does really align with the fact he’s the first one (at least as far as the movies are willing to discuss) to crack Force ghosting which seems uh, not exactly something the Jedi would be totally on board with

eleanor.lockhart.contact•10 days ago

Yes he specifically learned that through nontraditional teachings that it’s pretty strongly hinted have at least some roots in witchcraft, which is a thing in current canon that is both a cultural practice and a different way of accessing the Force, which was not always Dark Side

eleanor.lockhart.contact•10 days ago

Qui-Gon specifically found this information out through vision quests and meditation which he later guided Yoda through (this is in the Clone Wars, which I consider top level canon, and I define canon more conservatively than Disney does currently)

draculokeanos.bsky.social•10 days ago

out of curiosity, is rebels top level canon or nah

finfanfoust.bsky.social•10 days ago

Do they ever explain how Vader can Force ghost? I get Yoda, I get Ben, but how can Vader do it?

Tbh I could actually see a world where Qui-Gon visited Vader to try and talk sense into him, but I don’t see one where he’d actively assist him.

eleanor.lockhart.contact•10 days ago

So the Jedi who persist permanently as ghosts learned a technique that is outside of both the Jedi and Sith religious traditions, and this technique is closely related to the secret of Darth Plegeius, which is also something learned from witches, not from Jedi or Sith tradition

alias-wolfgang.bsky.social•10 days ago

Makes sense, thanks! Unrelated to the politics, I now need to find fanfic where he survives Episode 1 and trains Anakin, averting the tragedies and utterly derailing the Sith's plans.

supremerobo.bsky.social•10 days ago

I mean if he doesn't die there's a decent chance Dooku doesn't fall and the Sith Great Plan is ended by Yaddle

johnlk.bsky.social•10 days ago

Dooku should have been a minor character in the first movie. Like a Jedi confidant of Qui-Gon who thinks Mace Windu and the Council suck. Give them one scene together in Coruscant.

slydessertfox.bsky.social•10 days ago

Eh he'd already left the order by then

brianmcnatt.bsky.social•10 days ago

Did he? I remember in the Tales of the Jedi series a couple years ago about his backstory he was at the Temple during Episode 1 and ran into Qui-Gon. They discuss the Maul encounter on Tatooine.

johnlk.bsky.social•10 days ago

Well that was an uninteresting story choice, wasn't it?

alias-wolfgang.bsky.social•10 days ago

I feel like Qui-Gon going "Yo, found the Chosen One. Wanna help train him?" would get Dooku back in the saddle, or at least helping Qui-Gon if not fully in the order.

mikedavis.bsky.social•10 days ago

If I want fanfic off that episode, it’s “Dooku decides to go help Qui-Gon”

wanderlib.bsky.social•10 days ago

"Dooku returns to the Order to train Obi-Wan and Anakin" *would* also be an excellent premise.

denam.bsky.social•10 days ago

Split point being the council rejecting Anakin as a Padawan, which leads to QGJ being more cautious and surviving, then taking him to crash on Dooku's couch after Ep1

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