Harvard University will relinquish its ownership of two haunting images of an enslaved father and his daughter after settling a six-year legal battle with a woman who says she is their descendant.
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Where do we draw the line between genuine anthropology and grave-robbing? This is in a similar ethical situation.
Personally, the photos should be with the family, but they should still be used to educate on history and racism the same way Holocaust pictures have educational purposes.
The line depends on who the anthropologist is. If Natives discovered a settler burial site, would it be anthropology to put them or their things on display and charge admission? Otoh, understanding how people in other cultures would feel is anthropology as a study of people as people not objects.
If the science is done according to its own principles, why not? Bolivia is, ethnically, mostly native or mixed native and they have museum too. If the ethnographic and folklore museum displayed some Conquistador's stuff in an educational way, I say why not.
Well, is the display a trophy, a show of dominance, like the Crown Jewels? That's not anthropology, imo, or very educational.
Bolivian museums focus on Bolivian art and history, and most of the work is done by Bolivians. Afa the US, pre-colonial items should be displayed acc/to the Native culture.
I'm torn on this one, because while they effectively looted a lot of priceless artifacts, you can bet a lot of the ones coming form the ME would have been destroyed by ISIS for being heretical or some shit.
It should have agreements with the countries those are from and pay them for having them.
I know. Like the pyramids are also not being taken cared for properly either and they might even be in danger.
the west should transfer it over so it can be properly preserved
They have loads of Irish artifacts. I don't think ISIS would have been over here destroying stuff. Pretty sure that most of the artifacts would have been perfectly safe left where they belong
100%. There are concerns about security, infrastructure, and overall practices. I believe it has to be case by case but also that Western museums are better equipped to keep at least a portion of the art and artifacts. But the top institutions are repatriating some pieces as we speak so 🤷♀️
For all we know there are people at the Smithsonian currently working to move stuff to somewhere safer. Actually, I’m positive they are discussing contingency plans.
It's an interesting point. If ISIS were the "rightful heirs" should they not have the right to do as they please with their inheritance? I do agree that things should be preserved but that line between archeology and theft is hard to pin down.
Well, that's depending on who you ask. Also you misinterpreted my comment. ISIS was never a legitimate government, the actual ones were powerless to stop them from destroying priceless parts of culture.
They were never proper stewards. But, who is? A question for smarter people than I.
How about the very real case of the Taliban blowing up the Buddha statues, a UNESCO site. Gonna throw that bone out to Bluesky. Not like the Buddhas were even able to be removed, but as the Muslim Taliban pretty much was the Afghan government, are they the heirs of those ancient Buddhist statues?
Dude, that made me so sad. I saw a travel video of a very adventurous Spaniard that travelled to Afghanistan and it's such a beautiful country with amazing people...
Sometimes, you have to think where would they be safe. In the 1970s I would have argued strongly for the Elgins to stay in the BM where the air was clean. Athens was corrosively toxic. Not so now. Most of what you see in BM is plaster casts. That’s fine too.
High quality prints of the photos could still be used for educational purposes while relinquishing the originals to the family. No reason we can't have it both ways.
I have no idea how you think this refutes anything I said. Photographs are owned by whoever takes the photo. In this case, that appears to be Harvard. So it's a very weird outcome and I don't understand the plaintiff's claim to it.
I'm uneasy with the precedent this could set. Archives are full of documents & images which one could claim to belong to one's family - i.e., family Bibles can be found in RevWar pension claims at NARA. Should we tear up repositories to give possible descendants what are now historical artifacts?
I am glad that this particular photo will go to another repository - however, that will *not* always be the case, if such artifacts end up in private hands. I have worked too long in genealogy & historical research to trust the general public with the care and preservation of such items.
So if a museum owns a portrait of someone's ancestor any descendant has the right to decide where it goes? Or has the right to own it? I understand the premise here, but this seems like a pretty slippery slope.
Ok, somebody made a pic of one of my ancestors. Why would I possibly be the legal owner of this? Yes, slavery bad. Yes, great injustice to the poor lad and his girl.
Your country does not even have a constitution, less an article about personal photos. If you are referring to German legal stipulations regarding the use of personal depictions, they are in the Kunsturhebergesetz paragraphs 22-24 which I'd advise consulting.
You Know What? Fuck Harvard, how much Fucking Damage has Harvard done to the Working Class over the last 400 Years? Founded October 28, 1636, 17 Years after the first Slaves were Enslaved in America and 229 Years before the Emancipation Proclamation. #FuckHarvard #GenocidalZionists
The New York Times does everything to make Trump, and his demonizing of higher education, seem more palatable. With every article you publish, your country sinks deeper.
They seem to be pushing 2 Harvard bashing articles just today. I am not some Harvard stan, but we all know they have a beef with the Trump regime, and at a certain point one can't help but see the articles as favors to this fascist regime.
I read the AP story, don't have a subscription to NYT, never will. The university has an ugly racist history same as our country's. Hopefully, they will make good on this. It has nothing to do with the orange beast, who is clearly more racist now than Harvard ever was!
If the photos are of their ancestors, the family should decide where they're preserved and be compensated. Harvard gets paid whenever someone uses those photos in a published work. The public can already see the photos on the internet.
This is just a speck of the injustices & indignity from this entire country towards the enslaved, the ppl who built these institutions & buildings for FREE. The bones, DNA, possessions etc., of my ancestors passed around & sold for profit & pleasure. Anything built after 1619 was FREE ENSLAVED labor
In the past few days, past posts criticizing North Korea on X and Meta have been forcibly deleted
If Japanese people are not allowed to have freedom of speech to protect Japan's homeland and security,
then Zuckerberg and the Harvard faction are the enemy of the Japanese people
#freedomofspeech
Well there's a real resurrection, certainly that's what satanists are trying to tempt. The "dare" (hm... not my kind of daring) is whether he'll "rise up and expose her".
How do you figure it'll be lost? Is there any reason, at this point, to suppose that the museum to which they give the photos will be any less responsible a custodian than Harvard?
We know from our historical research and personal experience how families tend to devalue old things and either lose them or sell them. I did not see anything about giving the photographs to a museum, but if the plaintiff does so, then I'm fine with it.
"The images...will not, however, go to the woman who sued for them, Tamara Lanier. Instead, they are expected to be transferred, along with images of five other enslaved people, to the International African American Museum in Charleston, S.C., the state where the subjects were enslaved."
Perhaps so, but hard copy is the most authentic source. It's rather hard to argue with the original. Scanned photos will be subject to format changes over the years. JPEG etc. may go defunct, but the original plate (if preserved) will endure.
It’s remarkably easy to change file formats. I can make a JPG into a PNG in like 2 seconds, so the idea that suddenly a photo would be inaccessible is just silly.
Up to a point. But I've lost documents in 1990s and even 2000s formats because of the constant shifts due to Microsoft etc. I am fine with the original going to the museum in Charleston where it will be safe.
GOOD! You cannot OWN the picture of someone's family!
Shame on Harvard for even trying.
The irony of this even being an issue when the people in the pictures were "owned" by slavers and now Harvard is trying to "own" them in death is utterly appalling. Inexcusable!
You can absolutely own the picture of someone else. The copyright act of 1976 grants the creator or owner of a photo exclusive rights to said photo(s). The lady who sued actually lost in court on the question of who owned the photos, Harvard won. The photos are being sent to a museum.
All that is happening is a direct result of all the evil so many of y'all, individuals as well as institutions, continue to practice on the Blacks. ENJOY!
It is honorable of Harvard to defend themselves from Trump. But, history is complicated. Karma is best served cold!! Harvard must remember their contribution at the best but, also, the worse of times.
That's why it's hard to feel bad for Harvard. They have 50 Billion and connections to millions of Millionaire donors including Gates/Zuck. They'll be fine I'm sure.
you don't have to atone for the sins of your predecessors dude, wtf? do you also tell your Japanese friends to "atone for the sins" of their fascist predecessors? oh, what am I saying, your friend group is probably whiter than a newborn lamb.
Let me just take a wild guess, are you white? If the Japanese were guilty of 300plus years of slavery followed by systematic racism I’d say yes, they have much to atone for.
It’s reports like this about Harvard that make you want to scream while you’re patting them on the back for fighting trump. Then again, after the centuries they’ve been in existence, better late than never to get “woke”. “Woke”. It IS a good thing.
By these comments it looks like no one actually read the article. She lost the court case claiming ownership of the image. Moving the photo was part of a settlement for a separate case of how she was treated by the university.
Good for you,now what?To have the indigenous hysterical paranoia of having your spirit trapped in the photograph belies the still unconscious position of humanity.How very little the mental aspect of humanity has not kept pace with our material'progress';I am apologetic that man has to be like this
It might be stronger than their claim. Repatriation of indigenous culture is happening all over the world. Australian aboriginals are forcing the Brits to return artefacts stolen during colonisation and are succeeding. But the Brits also fight to keep stolen artefacts to no avail.
@nytimes.com don’t you have a 🍆 to suck and by that I mean, Trumps? Wonder where this great nation has fallen? You all lack morals which I wonder if you all had any to begin with? Seems like you all forgot how it was to be a child that once felt scrutiny, shame, guilt that longed & cared to be seen.
Comments
No? Weird how that stopped suddenly when he came to power ….
Personally, the photos should be with the family, but they should still be used to educate on history and racism the same way Holocaust pictures have educational purposes.
Otherwise we're just buying time until the sun eats us.
Bolivian museums focus on Bolivian art and history, and most of the work is done by Bolivians. Afa the US, pre-colonial items should be displayed acc/to the Native culture.
It should have agreements with the countries those are from and pay them for having them.
the west should transfer it over so it can be properly preserved
Well, we can, but it's harder and the priorities should lie elsewhere.
In Brazil a fire in a museum destroyed thousands of relics, a few years ago.
Maybe when humans collectively get their shit together we can have the best museums everywhere.
I, personally, like dinosaurs.
They were never proper stewards. But, who is? A question for smarter people than I.
IMO Confederate traitors don't deserve monuments, but once they exist, should they be torn down?
*looks up who that James fellow is*
And I agree, pirate (I mean, copy!) everything!
Not racist scum.
No, not at all.
No sir.
Their family history is not for us to hoard.
I decide about a photo on which my face is.
At least it is a basic right in the constitution of my country.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recht_am_eigenen_Bild_(Deutschland)
If Japanese people are not allowed to have freedom of speech to protect Japan's homeland and security,
then Zuckerberg and the Harvard faction are the enemy of the Japanese people
#freedomofspeech
Shame on Harvard for even trying.
The irony of this even being an issue when the people in the pictures were "owned" by slavers and now Harvard is trying to "own" them in death is utterly appalling. Inexcusable!
https://apnews.com/article/harvard-university-slave-photos-d9c01b7926bba2a686ff325617e93ce9 Harvard agrees to relinquish early photos of slaves, ending a long legal battle
We don't get much detail on that, though.
Whether or not Lanier is a descendant of the man in the photo, Harvard's ownership of the photo rests on a slaveowner's use of an enslaved person.