Own. Being owned, including P3s is a way to higher cost and lower value. In general, in most cases, P3 costs more, takes longer and is lower value and not worth doing. Very few isolated cases are worth it. - ThreadSky

toondreessen.bsky.social • 7 days ago

Own. Being owned, including P3s is a way to higher cost and lower value. In general, in most cases, P3 costs more, takes longer and is lower value and not worth doing. Very few isolated cases are worth it.

Reposted from Social Capital Partners🇨🇦

Too often, Canada invests public money in building new things and then sells it off to the highest bidder.

The 407 ETR? The Skydome? Telcos?

As we get going on nation-building projects, key question:

🍁DO WE WANT TO OWN OR BE OWNED?

socialcapitalpartners.ca/as-the-feder...

#CanadaSky #CdnPoli

Comments

pxtl.ca•5 days ago

I know it was more consulting and not a proper P3, but doesn't the Metrolinx/DB debacle show that the problem with P3s is the "public" side? Doesn't it imply that moving away from the p3 model would be putting *more* trust in the proven-incompetent Ontario bureaucracy?

https://bsky.app/profile/chanface.bsky.social/post/3lrbpzno7pk2b

toondreessen.bsky.social•5 days ago

But what if we actually hired professionals, paid them properly for services, gave them the mandate and budget (and accountability) to do great things and then stood back and watched good things unfold as a result? Are we really better off with the current model?

pxtl.ca•5 days ago

I wish I had your faith that this was possible. After watching a generation of friends move to Brantford to find housing I have very little confidence in GTHA planning professionals' ability to get out of their own way.

toondreessen.bsky.social•5 days ago

It’s taken a generation or more to get where we are; it’s going to take time to get things righted. The right leadership, a revolution in policy thinking, and it will happen. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-canada-needs-an-architecture-policy/

chanface.bsky.social•4 days ago

Also I wrote an essay in first year evaluating the effectiveness of P3s in Canada, comparing the Waterloo ION LRT, Toronto Eglinton Crosstown, and Vancouver Canada Line P3s.

Lots of interesting lessons to learn.

@toondreessen.bsky.social

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EWztgU2sOmfDQoaDSMWY_3U01nbAjlVJegsx23V1nbg/edit?usp=sharing

chanface.bsky.social•4 days ago

Metrolinx as a public entity is obviously incompetent re: recent drama, but Crosslinx as a private consortium also was a deceitful bad faith actor.

Interesting auditor general report on that here too: https://www.auditor.on.ca/en/content/annualreports/arreports/en18/v1_307en18.pdf

chanface.bsky.social•5 days ago

1/ I think P3s by themselves are not necessarily a bad thing, they have their time and place. For example, Waterloo built the ION LRT with a P3 that was delivered mostly on time and on budget (issues happened because of rolling stock drama that dates back to cancellation of transit city).

toondreessen.bsky.social•5 days ago

Agreed. A P3 project can work, especially when you walk into it with your eyes open: if it’s clear with the contract is, and how much it costs and what the risks are. But when it’s sold, as Ottawa LRT was, as a pack of lies and secrecy, it doesn’t work. 1/

toondreessen.bsky.social•5 days ago

Take something that is unique and one off like the Champlain bridge in montreal; it’s not something we build regularly, nor have expertise in. There’s value in a P3 for design and construction (but likely not for op/maintain, like we did for ottawa LRT); 2/

toondreessen.bsky.social•5 days ago

Then take something like a hospital that we build repeatedly, have lots of experience with, but because of the procurement model, we’ve hollowed out in-house expertise, we pay through the nose for inferior product and don’t reap the benefits of risk reduction. We’re spending more to benefit profit

chanface.bsky.social•5 days ago

2/ They are good if you manage the contract well, and it's a one off project, so it's worth paying the consulting fee premium. Meanwhile, Metrolinx is building many similar transit projects, and will likely continue doing so into the next few decades, so they should just hire in house staff and...

chanface.bsky.social•5 days ago

3/ ... and build the institutional knowledge, competencies, efficiencies, and economies of scale that way. I'm glad to see that Metrolinx is starting to learn how to manage contracts, as Eglinton Crosstown was their first major one. The Ontario line is split in 3 different sections contracts.

eightysixer.bsky.social•4 days ago

No, it doesn’t demonstrate that. It certainly shows that the public sector can do better, but that’s the problem that is fully within government control. There are many instances of the private sector doing a poor job and then walking away. Easy to do when you have formed a consortium.

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