"just study humanities!" socrates was executed because he was advisor to a collaborator government which murdered a quarter of athens' citizens - ThreadSky

theophite.bsky.social • 49 days ago

"just study humanities!"

socrates was executed because he was advisor to a collaborator government which murdered a quarter of athens' citizens

Reposted from John Q Public

It’s an ironic combo with the “just study some humanities” stuff

That’s not the skeleton key either

Comments

dslakter.bsky.social•49 days ago

I thought the estimates were around 5%.

contextproblem.bsky.social•49 days ago

Nah

brasidas.bsky.social•49 days ago

I do think that we can't underestimate the Music Man theory of the execution of Socrates...

greenbirds.bsky.social•49 days ago

Please elaborate

brasidas.bsky.social•49 days ago

That blaming a philosopher who insulted your family and made your son hate you with an argument about the corruption of the youth and the city of Athens is understandable.

Like the hoi polloi bought that Socrates and other philosophers had made kids not believe in Zeus anymore.

brasidas.bsky.social•49 days ago

And - you have to see the Athenians in the Melian Dialog as apt pupils of Gorgias and Protagoras.

There's a line from Herodotus to Plato of the dialectic in Athens being, "wait, why do we have the traditions we have when a lot of places have different traditions?"

brasidas.bsky.social•49 days ago

Anytus: "Why do the young men keep rubbering into the Agora."

Meletus: "They've got a new philosopher in town."

Anytus: "Well surely they've seen a philosopher before!"

brasidas.bsky.social•49 days ago

The idea that philosophy had distracted the youth from believing in Zeus and had led to Athens' corruption and downfall has to be taken as the exact type of argument that would have worked.

brasidas.bsky.social•49 days ago

Doesn't help that Socrates star pupil was a serial betrayer who stole half of Anytus' flatware at a party though.

oneoneder.bsky.social•49 days ago

I think the desire to murder a "just asking questions" fascist influencer for treason is relatable

brasidas.bsky.social•49 days ago

Socrates also mocked Anytus; Alcibiades mocked Anytus; and then Anytus' son hung out with Socrates and became a drunk.

So he perhaps took that personally...

doodpatrol.bsky.social•49 days ago

Hitler; studied arts and the humanities.
Mao; studied arts and the humanities.
Stalin; studied arts and the humanities.

andrew-varnon.bsky.social•49 days ago

I can’t like this, but I hear you.

praxisprocess.bsky.social•48 days ago

Plato was def involved, but Socrates' involvement with the Thirty Tyrants isn't well supported afaik. The execution was principally because he proposed non punishment after the verdict, and he was brought up on charges cuz he was annoying and tied to Plato and Alcibiades

nated.bsky.social•48 days ago

And Plato’s political philosophy is primarily a response to the evils of Tyranny that he saw as young supporter of The Thirty. Most of his mature work emphasizes constitutionalism and the dangers of monopolies of wealth and power to the health of the polis.

conjurial.bsky.social•49 days ago

Bronze Age Pervert has a graduate degree in philosophy

theophite.bsky.social•49 days ago

peter thiel has a degree in philosophy

fatarbok.bsky.social•49 days ago

Alex Karp studied under Habermas.

mbdrapier.bsky.social•47 days ago

jailrespecter.bsky.social•49 days ago

with all due respect, if they had wanted to execute him for that, they would have just said so

conjurial.bsky.social•49 days ago

Though, I mean, Al Capone and tax evasion

theophite.bsky.social•49 days ago

yeah, except for the amnesty granted to everyone but the Thirty

jailrespecter.bsky.social•49 days ago

those were the 3,000 collaborators, there's no way socrates was on that list

theophite.bsky.social•49 days ago

that's a very large percntage of the number of citizens left alive and in Athens after the war, the plague, the banishments, the executions, and the moderates fleeing the city.

jailrespecter.bsky.social•49 days ago

it is, and the fact that he didn't flee probably helped get him executed, but framing him as an 'advisor' when he was more a former teacher who then conscientiously objected is too much

jailrespecter.bsky.social•49 days ago

if he had been, they would have brought it up, and they would have focused on his political teachings being too pro-sparta in the trial

dslakter.bsky.social•49 days ago

Plato has him say in some of the dialogues that his admiration for Sparta upsets some, but those could just be Plato's views rather than ones held by Socrates.

jailrespecter.bsky.social•49 days ago

yes, i'm saying that they would have brought it up a lot more in the trial if it were the main issue at stake or if they thought he was a serious sparta collaborator

jailrespecter.bsky.social•49 days ago

his level of collaboration was negligible, you can say he should have criticized them more but the thirty were on the verge of having him executed for insubordination when they disbanded

jailrespecter.bsky.social•49 days ago

xenophon does not say he collaborated, quite the opposite, what he does say is that he had taught some of the thirty when they were younger and there may have been guilt by association in play, possibly extends into ideology too but not collaboration

oneoneder.bsky.social•49 days ago

Xenophon was a student of Socrates himself, yes?

brasidas.bsky.social•49 days ago

I do love that you can (and should) read both Xenophon and Plato in the context of partly being an Apology (in the Greek sense) for Socrates.

brasidas.bsky.social•49 days ago

One objective of both their literary projects was rehabilitating Socrates and Plato goes as far as to create a new homeric, philosopher-hero in the process.

I like to imagine Plato fuming with rage and grief writing - as one way to imagine him of many for sure.

jailrespecter.bsky.social•49 days ago

We don’t have sources who weren’t

jailrespecter.bsky.social•49 days ago

You can speculate all you like, but it’s essentially arbitrary how biased you decide they all were or weren’t, other than when they disagree with each other

josephzander.bsky.social•49 days ago

Saying so would have been an insult to Sparta.

jailrespecter.bsky.social•49 days ago

they did not care about that at all

jailrespecter.bsky.social•49 days ago

a bunch of vigilantes marched on the rump government of the thirty in eleusis after all the amnesty stuff and nobody gave a shit and it didn't lead to another war

dabenner.bsky.social•49 days ago

Ok well how did you learn that!

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