Keir Starmer was not trying to sound like Roy Jenkins - and it is silly to now claim that he was. Nor was he trying to sound like Enoch Powell. To state the obvious, he *was* trying to sound like Vote Leave. Quoting Take Back Control + Reduce were his core messages. www.gov.uk/government/s... - ThreadSky

sundersays.bsky.social • 16 days ago

Keir Starmer was not trying to sound like Roy Jenkins - and it is silly to now claim that he was.

Nor was he trying to sound like Enoch Powell.

To state the obvious, he *was* trying to sound like Vote Leave.

Quoting Take Back Control + Reduce were his core messages.

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-remarks-at-immigration-white-paper-press-conference-12-may-2025

Comments

zbigniew-g.bsky.social•15 days ago

If you didn't intend to, but came across as Enoch Powell- your comms person's are fucking inept and need to be fired. Also, brexit supporters sound very much like Enoch Powell.

samanthasearrings.bsky.social•16 days ago

Is he under the impression that sounding like Vote Leave will appeal to the many Remain/Labour voters?

akma.bsky.social•15 days ago

And that's Badenoch…

robgomm.bsky.social•16 days ago

Who said the Roy Jenkins part? 😅 That's barmy.

sundersays.bsky.social•16 days ago

I believe: didn't know about overlap of 'strangers' with Powell or want the comparison. They have found the Jenkins quote afterwards (which exemplifies that Labour govts always promoted managed, not unlimited, immigration). But absurd to say that was the inspiration!
https://news.sky.com/story/who-pm-was-really-trying-to-echo-with-island-of-strangers-speech-13367327

robgomm.bsky.social•16 days ago

Thanks Sunder. Won't go over Powell stuff again but Jenkins is ironic given Kenyan Asian treatment that was profoundly racist.

telson.bsky.social•16 days ago

It's the ace No10 comms team displaying their usual dazzling brilliance.

sundersays.bsky.social•16 days ago

On "everyone knows what that slogan meant for immigration", up to a point.

64% thought Brexit would lead to lower immigration in June 2016, but this fell to 38% in Sept 2016 (with 53-60% believing it would remain much the same or higher).

46% expected lower immigration & 54% didn't by 2021.

sundersays.bsky.social•16 days ago

Partly more Remain voters expected lower (47%) in June 2016 than Sept 2016 (26%) then back to 44% by 2021 (maybe as softer Brexits fell away)

Also dramatic *2016* (!) collapse in expectations among Leave voters: 85% in June 2016, down 30 points to 55% by Sept 2016.Fell back to 40%-52% range by 2021

sundersays.bsky.social•16 days ago

Expectations of the impact of Brexit tracked here
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/WUKT-Brexit-Analysis-v4.pdf

sundersays.bsky.social•16 days ago

Beth Rigby of Sky News has been told that there was no intent to evoke a comparison with Powell.

To say Roy Jenkins is "the politician the PM was trying to channel' is highly implausible, though quote shows Lab gvts always speak for managed migration, not unlimited
https://news.sky.com/story/who-pm-was-really-trying-to-echo-with-island-of-strangers-speech-13367327

sundersays.bsky.social•16 days ago

The Blair Duty to Integrate speech (Dec 2006) felt like a nuanced speech to those in the room, co-hosted at No 10 by Runnymede Trust. It was over-spun for sharp and polarising headlines the next day

From a 2019 piece about Blair on integration
https://capx.co/on-integration-a-polarised-debate-masks-public-consensus

cmrlj.bsky.social•16 days ago

This is such a good example of why we can’t have a sensible public debate on this issue – the media is ridiculously unserious and toxic, and anyone trying to address the subtleties of the issue will be misrepresented and pilloried so everybody else learns a lesson that only populists are welcome.

phillipwatson.bsky.social•16 days ago

I’m still awaiting a definition of integration. When we lived in the U.K. my OH spoke fluent English, worked, paid taxes but spoke Russian to her friends, went to Russian food shops, we celebrated Russian holidays and she spoke Russian with her friends. According to some people she wasn’t integrated

peterwelsh68.bsky.social•16 days ago

Sunder has really looked under the bonnet of Starmers speech.

Appreciated.

paulbernal.bsky.social•16 days ago

Has Starmer ever claimed Roy Jenkins as a role model before?

sundersays.bsky.social•16 days ago

I think he has - but I have seen him speaking in very liberal terms to some audiences. Eg that his proudest achievement is his work on the death penalty as a lawyer

matthewholehouse.bsky.social•16 days ago

Indeed - or parody Vote Leave, and turn its own rhetoric against it

rafaelbehr.bsky.social•15 days ago

Exactly. The nearest and most instructive rhetorical comparison is May's 'citizens of nowhere' line - common ingredient is Nick Timothy/Blue Labourish mistrust of liberal migration policy as force of free-market individualism, antithesis of rootedness and community.

ianstev91.bsky.social•15 days ago

He may well have been trying to sound like Vote Leave. If so it was negligent of both his speechwriters and Starmer himself to include words that might be - and clearly genuinely were by many - interpreted as evoking things said by Powell.

sammaclaine.bsky.social•15 days ago

How many people actually knew the the Powell speech contained the word 'strangers' ? It wasn't even the same phrase 🤔

ianstev91.bsky.social•15 days ago

Probably not many but rather surprising and alarming that they include a PM and his advisers tackling the subject of immigration.

sammaclaine.bsky.social•15 days ago

I suspect the speech writer got a bit of a bollocking but the speech was in 1968. Kier Starmer was 6 🤔

ianstev91.bsky.social•15 days ago

I don't find that a convincing defence for someone who apparently takes inspiration from the 64-70 Wilson government, especially since No10 have since suggested he was reflecting Roy Jenkins.

sammaclaine.bsky.social•15 days ago

I didn't think Enoch Powell was in the Wilson Government, but maybe people should have heeded Roy Jenkins 'you need nothing to begin with except a suspicious atmosphere' from May 1968 🤔

martymcd.bsky.social•16 days ago

I'm pretty sure that those words, perhaps absent the 'island of strangers' line but with an alternative, could quite easily have been spoken by Blair if he were PM today or in 2016 tbh?

sundersays.bsky.social•16 days ago

On managed migration: Labour governments have often been 'pro-immigration but less of it'

Labour governments often rights and responsibilities on integration. Blair Duty to Integrate speech (Dec 2006) is a nuanced speech, over-spun by Campbell for cheap headlines
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1536408/Adopt-our-values-or-stay-away-says-Blair.html

johnw60.bsky.social•16 days ago

Squalid chapter?

martymcd.bsky.social•16 days ago

I'm really not interested in your opinion John, but thanks for engaging

conmachiavel.bsky.social•16 days ago

Martin, I get what you mean but could you elaborate?

What (do you think) would Blair in 2016 or 2025, one or two decades after stepping down, have been trying to say?

Would he really have used that language, including its implications of unfairness and illegality by innocent people? Why?

martymcd.bsky.social•16 days ago

I was, perhaps unclearly, talking about the excerpt of the speech that Sunder posted above, not the whole thing. Think difference is Blair would likely used that analysis as a launchpad for a more thought through policy prescription. It's worth thinking PM Blair didn't have this media environment

conmachiavel.bsky.social•16 days ago

I hear you. And to be clear: I have no idea whether Blair is a better man than Starmer, or vice versa.

But Starmer’s speech was accompanied by a white paper, a complete set of new policies. He was framing them using words and ideas that sound turbo-hostile. May on steroids.

johnw60.bsky.social•16 days ago

Except they weren’t.

aidan.skinner.me.uk•16 days ago

yes and Blair attempted to get asylum seekers to use vouchers for food

martymcd.bsky.social•16 days ago

In fairness that was Jack Straw, and he actually did it, if memory serves tbh!

aidan.skinner.me.uk•16 days ago

Maybe as a pilot? I think it was referenced in one my OU textbooks but they're on a low shelf in the hall and my back and knees hurt

rich-bryant.uk•16 days ago

JUDGE STRAW : HE IS THE LAW.

Best example of my theory that however woolly and liberal the person you put in the home office, they all go fash within six months. Except Ken Clarke.

aidan.skinner.me.uk•16 days ago

Woy

mdhoefsmit.bsky.social•16 days ago

This would be a time I’ll have to agree with you I think

aethelfleda.bsky.social•16 days ago

If you'd have told me 12 months ago I'd be wondering if Keir Starmer has just channelled Enoch Powell in a speech I'd have laughed in your face. He's brought this on himself. I voted for him as leader, but after his policy decisions since taking office all bets are off.

melzat.bsky.social•15 days ago

Thanks for sharing - and my first viewing! I blocked 2 or 3 known 'journalists' because of their comments on this issue - and now see I was right to do so.

Maybe everyone should pause & explore the facts, before being disgusted & dismayed.

telson.bsky.social•16 days ago

Good to see a sensible take.
Not that I have any objection to denouncing Sir Keir as the new Enoch.
If he's sufficiently clobbered he'll be less likely to use such offensive language again.

richardkeppler.bsky.social•16 days ago

In Sir Keith’s defense, he’s just an actor reading what they put on the teleprompter for him.
He’s only interested in world diplomacy, not this domestic policy or politics stuff.

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