In my view (1) the mass university system we have built since the 1970s is now likely coming to an end, if not in this Parliament than in the next; (2) university bankruptcies (perhaps disguised as mergers) are inevitable. Sorry, but there it is.
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When virtually all adult education facilities changed their names to Universities, the perceived excellence was diluted. It was a pointless exercise. Why group all skill sets under one umbrella? The merits of pratical/technical colleges were always underrated by the more academic Universities.
Virtually all adult education facilities didn't change their names to universities - there are 157 Further Education Colleges in England? As so ever, ignorance of FE shows a fundamentally skewed view of the whole field. We need to start there and expand them, not shrink unis.
Definitely. Only keep the most financially valuable research, the stuff that gets private sector funding. Pack students in at a scale that limits losses. Reduce pay by cutting all the research hours in the contracts of teaching staff. Fire half the admin. That would be one way of making scale work
What will it take for you to see his self destructive right wing project for what it is, if not this? Does he need posters of his face up in CECOT first
Yes Glen he’s amazing, that’s why a far right party is leading in the polls and his response is to destroy one of the last sectors of the economy that the uk is a world leader.
And who of us has been at the forefront of speaking up for HE and getting it understood and talked about as part of public debate, for years, way before Starmer was leader. Its malaise is far, far deeper than that - and not susceptible to the ministrations of a total failure like Corbyn.
Somebody (read: Starmer) needs to rein in Yvette Cooper. She's gone nuts.
This obsession with reducing total immigration numbers at the expense of all else is both stupid and hugely damaging. Without international students how does she think universities are going to make ends meet? Magic? Prayer?
Universities have over expanded chasing foreign students imho and there was always a risk that flow of income would reduce or dry up due to global politics, macro economic changes etc
But I never thought it’d be Labour turning off the tap 😕
Universities are one of the UK’s biggest export earners, and the main threat to that continuing is the Home Office, not any of the factors you cite. It’s madness.
Fair enough - although foreign students in Scottish Universities dropped by 10k last year, a drop of 12%
One university (which coincidentally is in financial trouble) saw a 27% drop with another seeing around a 50% drop
The flow was already slowing if last year is an indicator. This won’t help
But that was after the Home Office changed the rules. If the government cared about export earnings more than they cared about appeasing right wingers having conniptions about immigration they’d be doing everything possible to boost this incredibly successful export industry.
Broader point: universities are one of our key engines of prosperity, and one of the few that defies the Londoncentric logic of the UK economy. They should be boosted and supported, not cut. What sensible government tries to kill one of its few golden geese?
The changes to student/graduate visas started a while back, particularly with a Tory announcement of no family members with graduate visas. A lot of graduate level learners have families 🤷🏻♀️ they'll go somewhere where their family can be with them.
True
But I think undergraduate numbers have dropped too
The growing problem of Chinese graduate unemployment is/will have some degree of impact I’d imagine
This is a good (if cautionary) article on Chinese student numbers
I genuinely do not like what modern higher education has become for many reasons but the over-reliance on foreign students is caused by that being the only way they can deal with below-inflation increases to domestic tuition
The alternative would be to significantly increase state support for universities, which means taxes. I think that would be great, but *it's not a decision the universities themselves can make*
And they pay British rent, buy British groceries, pay the ridiculous NHS surcharge....they bring money into the economy if that is what we care about....arrrrgggghhhhhh
I'm aware. But in the official immigration statistics international students are counted (or so I have read) and it appears that Cooper thinks what voters are demanding is to get immigration numbers down.
I don't think the sort of people who are angry about immigrants will even notice the numbers.
As long as the right-wing press keeps saying "look at these foreigners, coming here and taking our jobs and lazing around on benefits and doing crime" they'll still stay angry. The numbers halving wouldn't placate them.
It was Theresa May when she ran the Home Office. No one has ever asked why. The Daily Mail, Sun, Spectator lot will scream at any changes, despite that we have more illegal and legal migration since Brexit. Stupid stupid stupid stupid.
What is the long-term impact of student visas issued on NET inward migration?
For if all returned home after their course completed, assuming no change in total overseas student numbers, and none acquired a subsequent visa, it would be zero once the transient impact of the pandemic passed
If we produce fewer graduates then pressure to allow in more graduates from abroad to fill vital roles is going to increase. But then that's a problem for another government in the future so presumably not a priority for this one.
How very sad it is when you read a sentence that is so brutal in its honesty, but just as brutal in its truth. 🥲 The powers that be should just crack off and leave our universities alone!
And there we all were, waiting for a change in govt to see a much needed change in attitude towards international students & even remove them from immigration stats. Where on earth is the Govt getting its information that the UK population is so against these students? So depressing
Mmmm but the immigration issue is more nuanced than Tory & Reform stopping the boats & it’s disappointing there hasn’t been any attempt by Labour to talk about legal immigration with time limited visas such as those coming to universities & the need for migrant workers in our NHS & social care etc 😔
During Covid, social care workers were KEY WORKERS, what’s changed? Work visas should be decided on the nations needs. I wonder how many people on doorsteps are saying, I’m totally against social care, if it’s provided by a foreign worker? Labour should be challenging Reform on their ideas for staff
The lack of any attempt to change the discourse on immigration is what disappoints me most about this government. Its attack on international students and effectively on HE in the UK has appalled me. So infuriating.
Yes, it's far more nuanced. But as long as Labour 'strategists' place more value on the tabloids, kippers and stink tanks than they do their natural supporters
As long as Cooper tries to 'out May' May. The debate in the party is stifled.
Folks, not just voters, don't give a toss about migration
1/2
Overseas students at UK universities bring money into the country so are an ‘export’ - a pretty successful export
Not just money into country for uni fees, but books, living expenses, leisure activities
Increases UK ‘soft power’ too
probably every academic I have ever met here would rather be teaching in Britain in 2025 except the Michigander who took a shit job teaching Phil 101 in San Diego county so he could ride his motorcycle all year
Do we have data on expansion of higher education post-2010?
The impression I get (with nothing to do with sector & never looked at data) is a freeze on domestic tuition fees - already uncomfortably high - has been addressed by taking in more & more overseas students at highest rate market will bear
[My own personal experience with a non-EU young person is that the UK is well out of line with EU unis on fees, charging way more (some in the EU are free!) and not necessarily for a better product]
If so, it does look like the existing settlement is unsustainable without public funding
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One a big uni fails, government will have a bunch of choices to make, all
bad. But I don’t expect them to do anything before then
This obsession with reducing total immigration numbers at the expense of all else is both stupid and hugely damaging. Without international students how does she think universities are going to make ends meet? Magic? Prayer?
But I never thought it’d be Labour turning off the tap 😕
One university (which coincidentally is in financial trouble) saw a 27% drop with another seeing around a 50% drop
The flow was already slowing if last year is an indicator. This won’t help
But I think undergraduate numbers have dropped too
The growing problem of Chinese graduate unemployment is/will have some degree of impact I’d imagine
This is a good (if cautionary) article on Chinese student numbers
https://www.eiu.com/n/in-charts-the-changing-picture-of-chinas-outbound-study/
I don't think the sort of people who are angry about immigrants will even notice the numbers.
For if all returned home after their course completed, assuming no change in total overseas student numbers, and none acquired a subsequent visa, it would be zero once the transient impact of the pandemic passed
But not if they displace our own youth - and if that is a perception the nativists will weaponise it
https://www.britishfuture.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/International-students-report.Feb2025.pdf
These are the people 'Together' identify as their 'election winning' voters
These are the folk they design policy for
Add to that the restrictions imposed by playing to imaginary 'fiscal rules' (keeping to the tory budget)
https://www.labourtogether.uk/how-labour-won-2024-report/#LaboursVoters
As long as Cooper tries to 'out May' May. The debate in the party is stifled.
Folks, not just voters, don't give a toss about migration
1/2
Not just money into country for uni fees, but books, living expenses, leisure activities
Increases UK ‘soft power’ too
Welcome to Starmer’s Britain.
The impression I get (with nothing to do with sector & never looked at data) is a freeze on domestic tuition fees - already uncomfortably high - has been addressed by taking in more & more overseas students at highest rate market will bear
If so, it does look like the existing settlement is unsustainable without public funding