Such a good idea. Agree with the general theme that discoverability is important, but I actually think that folks are under-valuing the storefront aspect. Having a smooth, easy way for folks to give you money is important. Having tools for handling shipping physical goods is important...
DTRPG, while being a fairly (ok very) lousy shopping experience, does critically provide support for bootstrapping self-publishing really well (POD, affiliation, marketing, discounts). That's a really attractive package to anyone solo starting out.
Sounds like you're pivoting from a storefront to more of a catalogue? If you can crack the discoverability problem then you'll have done something incredible.
But other problems you're going to have are content moderation, and making sure none of your systems are being abused.
This kind of central repository of different stores is a sound idea, but I can only imagine it could complicate things behind the initial concept for this platform? And for the taxes, would hosting on a non-US server help?
I see :( Well, fingers crossed, there is definitely a way to make all your effort count! I wish I could help in any way but that's outside of my expertise :(
its worth saying; itch calls ttrpgs "physical games" because it also includes larps, lyric games, board games, and wargames — i would rather a more inclusive word than less!
Yeah, that's fair. What I want to build here, though, is a home for the TTRPG community, so each thing would be its own "project," and a project could be a "TTRPG" or a "LARP" or a "Font Pack" or "Art Assets" and things like that.
totally, you're working on a different thing. i just wanted to explain why itchio says "physical games" instead of "ttrpgs" or something more conventional
RP, have you looked into how Crowdfundr works? I don't understand much, so take it with a grain of salt, but payments go straight to your PayPal account, they never touch the money.
I would set up things the same way but via another payment provider, BUT this doesn't have an impact on the Marketplace Facilitator Laws and who's responsible for collecting and filing taxes.
Separate stores are a decent solution, with the main site acting as a hub for all product listings and redirecting you to the actual store page when you're ready to purchase. If the stores maintain the same visual identity as the hub, the average user will only notice the difference from the URL.
Regarding customer experience, the main challenge is handling purchases from different stores. The friction of having to go through three or four different checkout processes is high and can also be confusing.
Your biggest challenge is going to be incentivizing folks to migrate to your platform. Network effects are powerful, even with these platforms’ imperfections.
If this happens and manages to make it to a polished product, count me and my crew in 10,000%. Id love to see an itch-like platform mainly for ttrpgs happen, and grassroots projects like this are a major interest for me
I’ve been thinking about doing this but I’m more of a software dev/TTRPG addict than a business person. So the idea of having to setup an LLC, dealing with the financial side etc. just makes me nervous. So I hope you can pull it off.
You don't have to do it UNLESS you pass certain sales thresholds on a per-location basis, so the idea of individual creators going through those thresholds is less likely than a whole creator platform, if you know what I mean.
Yeah I get it. The way I pictured it myself was more like how Campfire is setup. https://once.com/campfire
Essentially pay once for a major version of the app. Self host it and BYO-Stripe API key etc. Maybe offer a concierge service but ultimately you own it.
I'm interested in how you're dealing with discoverability and browsing experience, which are the two big challenges faced by itch/DriveThru from what I can see
Oh congrats !!!! Yeah I have a 3yo and a 1.5yo and it’s a lot but the first year was definitely the hardest part.
Sleep deprivation is the worst because it makes you more cranky and less patient and you need to be calm and patient with so many aspects of life and relationships
my understanding is that a huge part of operating this type of two sided marketplace is dealing with chargeback rates and stolen credit cards. and also moderation and community management. taxes definitely come into the mix here, but there's more that weighs on this decision than just them.
Interesting stuff! Would the platform still have all the tools for setting up a store? One of the major reasons I'm not considering that is because I've got no web design experience nor desire to use shopify or anything like that
I have contribution per the business aspect -
as for discoverability....something like rotating browser packs could be interesting.
Every X days a new "bundle" (though not necesssary to purchase as a bundle) could be presented on the home page?
Not "most popular" or sales
just accessible discov
I'm a web app dev, and I just want to say I know what it's like to spin up a wonderful proof of concept only to hit a requirements wall.
I love the idea, regardless. Thanks for what you do for the community!
I love the idea, and frankly, RP, knowing you, this hurdle is just that - a hurdle. Something that you will inevitably clear on your journey to become the true TTRPG renaissance person. I wish I was, or knew, someone who could help with this issue. Still, if I ever can help, I'm here for ya. 100%.
yeah, having separate store fronts feels like a non-starter to me sadly. the way I see it is that setting up a shop to sell my stuff on is easy enough, but why platforms work and why the ones that become successful do so is - in my experience - because of discovery, that's the no.1 priority
yeah, a little like the bandcamp model I guess, but still you see even if it's less algo non-stop play focused as say a Spotify the main reason it works is the effort they put into things like editorial, curation and pushing you towards new stuff rather than just being like a massive shop window
really that's why itch and to a lesser but still notable extent DTRPG suck so much. they're pretty terrible for discovery, they don't invest in editorial and community building and they generally don't do much if anything to funnel new people towards stuff they might like but otherwise won't find
so another very quick thought but what strikes me is that honestly for it to have a chance of not crashing and burning and just wasting a vast amount of your time and effort you need to get to scale very quickly and you need the discoverability stuff in place.
but that's really a technical thing and it's work and costs but some fancy mix of algorithmic recommendations and curated editorial will get that going (and tbh the latter can fill in for the former to start)
scale is key though, it needs a critical mass on there and I think for that it would...
really need to handle multiple store fronts, sort out the taxes etc.
which makes me think the obvious (I guess) solution would be to have some basic proof of concept and then pitch it to someone like IPR who have an existing relationships with loads of indie publishers & most importantly...
One approach might be to focus on discoverability — a catalogue that points to places to purchase or download That's basically what I am doing with my shopify store since I don't do physical sales. https://tomkinpress.com/collections/all-products
The other advantage is that it lets folks keep their stuff where they want. There's a fair bit of inertia with DTRPG and itch libraries that's hard to overcome with a new site.
Searching and discoverability have never been great on either platform....
Knowing many creators and collaborating with them and users to build needed features helps, but attracting initial users to the platform is crucial. Still, the strong traction of those posts is a good sign!
Oh dang that taxes wall is really an annoying project. It means moving from building a web project to building a company dealing with complex issues, and that's another hurdle level. This is such a great project. I feel that the separate URL/checkout option is interesting, but will probably...
discourage smaller publishers. Even if you make it a simple interface, that would imply dealing with takes. I suppose the goal of this platform would be to be as open as possible. Are you looking for partners able to provide advice on how to handle the tax/accounting part? How can we help you?
In the case I decided to move in "creators are the merchant of record and need to handle taxes of the individual store they own," handling taxes for creators would be pretty simple. They'd flip a toggle in a settings page, taxes would be collected automatically, and they'd only need to..
Oh ok, the usual thing, that's neat
If in that case we still can have a central hub where one can browse all the games (that are submitted) that sounds like a great solution
Again what can we do for you (besides sending war vibes for this amazing project?)
The simple solution to navigating the Marketplace facilitator laws would be to incorporate the organisation in a country that didn't place such a high burden on reporting.
The UK springs to mind, because there's 0% tax on books, but I think a few other EU countries might also work.
I'd definitely be interested in chatting more about supporting this project. I'm not a coder, but I have run small companies before and have been poking around sales platforms a bunch recently for another project.
Platforms only work with critical mass. A good service that does not cost money to host is better than aiming for a perfect platform that likely requires a payment processor, bookkeeping and employees. I encourage a simple solution to grow the userbase and test it out, self sufficiency is for later.
Oh, I hadn't thought about what a data pain sales/use taxes would be (my own US state has 88 different sales tax localities, being each county, so yeah...)
So unfortunately I have little I'm able to add to this discussion, but I do think the project is a fantastic idea and I would be very up for doing what we can to support.
Really it would ve amazing if we could sign up and just have the platform sort taxes but also.. I'd rather the platform exist.
My libraries are already spread across multiple platforms and another only makes it worse to know if I already own something. Also. I do not want to have to go to yet another site to search for interesting games.
Comments
Each indie TTRPG publisher is essentially a small business, the more of that toolkit that you can provide the better...
But other problems you're going to have are content moderation, and making sure none of your systems are being abused.
Essentially, anything we, as a community, build.
Would that simplify things?
This is an incredible endeavor you're taking on for the scene.
Do you plan to have some forums/conversations possibly attached to each creator/project page ?
Essentially pay once for a major version of the app. Self host it and BYO-Stripe API key etc. Maybe offer a concierge service but ultimately you own it.
But I don’t have all the domain knowledge on the publishing side. Just all this enterprise software knowledge and boy do I not like Drivethru’s UX lol
Sleep deprivation is the worst because it makes you more cranky and less patient and you need to be calm and patient with so many aspects of life and relationships
as for discoverability....something like rotating browser packs could be interesting.
Every X days a new "bundle" (though not necesssary to purchase as a bundle) could be presented on the home page?
Not "most popular" or sales
just accessible discov
I love the idea, regardless. Thanks for what you do for the community!
But we’re so close.
But when clicking on a project, you'd be redirect to the individual store that's it.
now the discovery bit is tricky...
scale is key though, it needs a critical mass on there and I think for that it would...
which makes me think the obvious (I guess) solution would be to have some basic proof of concept and then pitch it to someone like IPR who have an existing relationships with loads of indie publishers & most importantly...
I mean they already do all that, they just don't make it look like a consumer facing platform
so my concern is if there was enough money in it to make it viable, why do they not, or is it just the ttrpg industry isn't very forward looking
One approach might be to focus on discoverability — a catalogue that points to places to purchase or download That's basically what I am doing with my shopify store since I don't do physical sales.
https://tomkinpress.com/collections/all-products
The other advantage is that it lets folks keep their stuff where they want. There's a fair bit of inertia with DTRPG and itch libraries that's hard to overcome with a new site.
Searching and discoverability have never been great on either platform....
If in that case we still can have a central hub where one can browse all the games (that are submitted) that sounds like a great solution
Again what can we do for you (besides sending war vibes for this amazing project?)
The UK springs to mind, because there's 0% tax on books, but I think a few other EU countries might also work.
Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire, Oregon & Alaska also have fairly lax marketplace laws
https://quaderno.io/blog/online-marketplace-tax-laws-around-the-world/
Really it would ve amazing if we could sign up and just have the platform sort taxes but also.. I'd rather the platform exist.
My libraries are already spread across multiple platforms and another only makes it worse to know if I already own something. Also. I do not want to have to go to yet another site to search for interesting games.