to add, while the gaiman stuff is exceptionally egregious, and the incidents were 'fast progressing', in most instances there tends to be some form of preparatory/grooming activities - which is what a conduct based system is decently apt at impeding, especially when power dynamics are present - ThreadSky

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kroati.bsky.social • 128 days ago

to add, while the gaiman stuff is exceptionally egregious, and the incidents were 'fast progressing', in most instances there tends to be some form of preparatory/grooming activities - which is what a conduct based system is decently apt at impeding, especially when power dynamics are present

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kroati.bsky.social•128 days ago

the pushing back against the 'we have just to listen to people more' approach is due to how offenders manipulate and pressure victims frequently to not to talk about it in the first place, so if they dont do that, the environment does not know that there is an issue to act upon

kroati.bsky.social•128 days ago

obviously the ideal outcome would be to cover both conduct and listening to people; but within the constraints that exist, prioritization of conduct tends to create faster results and improvements, and dismissing it tends to have negative impact

elucidating.bsky.social•128 days ago

That's just an assertion, and one I submit is not well supported by history or your current reality. People break rules all the time even in the face of dire punishment and obvious identification.

On the other hand, Gaiman's going to face major fallout because his victim are being listened to.

elucidating.bsky.social•128 days ago

This seems to me like it ignores the fact that manipulators and and abusers already operate under a lot of strict social rules and roles and still find ways to manipulate those and pressure people.

Social roles protect themselves, not the people assuming them.

elucidating.bsky.social•128 days ago

"If only society understands the magnitude of Gaiman's transgressions reflexively and without an arbiter, we need strict social role systems to fix this" is strange because it's the teacher/student taboo is already a thing! But it's the listening and believing of the victims that has the impact.

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