Well maybe you should visit Sweden or Germany. They both have some of the biggest far right parties. I wonder why. And Biden ignored the same problem and now we have 4 years with Trump - and a democrat party in shatters. Brexit was about the same. But hey you got your “facts” so .. - ThreadSky

sletten73.bsky.social • 13 days ago

Well maybe you should visit Sweden or Germany. They both have some of the biggest far right parties. I wonder why.
And Biden ignored the same problem and now we have 4 years with Trump - and a democrat party in shatters.
Brexit was about the same.
But hey you got your “facts” so ..

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harrybeau.bsky.social•13 days ago

🤡🤡🤡

jmkorhonen.fi•13 days ago

Please take a look at the facts. For starters, here’s two maps of Germany, the first showing Turkish immigration (which is a good enough proxy for the kind of immigration the far right loves to talk about). The second shows the support of the far right AfD party. What do you see?

marsanges.bsky.social•13 days ago

The AfD is mostly a systems rejection. They reject immigrants only as a tool, they fundamentally reject modernity and liberalism as such. The AfD is the countryside hooligan youth that beats up a hippie. They kill homeless bc those are weak, thats what one does with weak ppl. AfD is Russia.

marsanges.bsky.social•13 days ago

Turkish immigration is not the main thing. What gets people riled up (in Germany at least) is immigration from Syria, Afghanistan, et al. Same as in NL - where Maghreb makes ppl angry, not Turkish. In essence it is the NEW not the old immigration. Point is correct though, AfD is not about imm.

jmkorhonen.fi•13 days ago

Then look at the numbers at country level. Here’s a good summary. How would you explain that

1) the combined vote for far right PARTIES is not noticeably smaller in Denmark, or

2) the far right tends to do _better_ in Eastern European countries that have practically no immigration to speak of?

adriancjr.bsky.social•12 days ago

A factual correction on Eastern Europe: Russia's 2022 full scale invasion of Ukraine caused a large wave of immigration into Eastern Europe, esp. into Poland. I have no idea if this is linked or not with the political choices, but it's good to get the facts right.

jmkorhonen.fi•12 days ago

True, but the far right was pretty strong in those countries even before.

fsteiner.bsky.social•12 days ago

And there is almost no refugee at all in Hungary. Neither Ukrainian nor other.

adriancjr.bsky.social•12 days ago

Based on Brexit, I tend to think that, in a weird way, voters do not equate "immigration", as a political subject with "presence of immigrants in my area". For pro-Brexit voters, immigration control was an important rationale, even (or especially) in places with fewer immigrants.

jmkorhonen.fi•13 days ago

It is very clear that the far right is extremely adept at stoking _fears_ of immigration and immigrants. They play on the atavistic fear of the other, or in other words, racism, very effectively. That is not in dispute.

But the maps explain why “being tough on immigration” usually fails to work.

jmkorhonen.fi•13 days ago

In these Finnish elections in particular, it would also be very hard to point out any policy changes or differences in the immigration stances of the left-wing parties compared to the last elections. So the theory that this almost-landslide victory was caused by tougher stance simply isn’t credible.

jmkorhonen.fi•13 days ago

BTW here’s the map of our radical right’s support in the previous municipal elections in 2021. Those who know the geography and demographics of Finland will note that as with German AfD, here too the support is anti-correlated with the numbers of immigrants.

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