I've mulled this over a thousand times, and I'm still not necessarily wedded to an answer re Thelwell. Some positives and negatives below I mull over for anyone that's bored
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Part ways for me. Operating under really difficult conditions thanks to the previous cash spunking from those before him but that considered I still think he could have done much better
I think with the big overhaul around him like the incoming board & the **please god** change of manager, it makes sense for some other departments to have a bit more of a slower paced handover. Maybe give him a chance alongside the new guy and make sure we hire a manager that aligns with his vision
You know I’m in the positive camp. But I understand all points. It will be interesting.
More importantly for me right now, should we worry about TFG’s Roma implosion? Is our happy news becoming worrying? 😬
Not imo as these are successful businesses ppl in various things and, as @john-b58.bsky.social often says if you’re going to fail then fail quickly.
Decisive action is far better than doing nothing when things are failing…..& if you get it wrong don’t be afraid to correct it early.
Again I don't think the answer to that can be black or white, which social media often doesn't like. It's nuanced, they've had lots of positives and I'm sure have also done things they wish they never, or delivered differently. I think they will be a big step up on Moshiri however.
Hopefully that’s a low bar 😂. I also wonder if part of it is the focus is now changed to Everton. And although I feel sorry for Roma fans, that gives me hope.
If you study their financial recovery from a bad place at Roma, to where it is currently that's a huge achievement. Obviously we forget that football is about winning trophys, well they've done that along the way. They also connected the fans again, selling out the stadia, it wasnt before them.
Sure they are now experiencing some bumps, but I don't honestly think its a red flag in itself. Mistakes are fine, as long as you learn from them. Moshiri never, infact he refused to even admit them and kept applauding his board publicly. TFG have plenty for me to be excited about.
In his defence, he has had to strive to make deals with ridiculous terms. We have been linked with a lot of good players - Kudus / Minteh to name a few - but didn’t have the money to get them done. For that plus the decent academy signings I think he’s earned a chance
He's had major problems to meander but I reckon the entire club needs reset once Dan the Toyota Man comes in. Manager, coaches, DoF, even the players. Fuck some of them off.
I feel like since he's actually been allowed to do his job over the past year/18 months he's actually done alright. Id give him a chance with new owners
That I don't know but I think he should be given the chance personally. Moshiri stopped a lot of people doing their jobs and I think since he's stepped back the club has been run better some should be given a chance to prove themselves
Some thoughts/ideas here - imo Thelwell can be good given the right structure around him, but that structure needs to be in place before any decision is made on him or Dyche imo
I did read that on the dog walk then, It would be interesting to know IF they already have the who identified and have began discussions. A few suggest they've had ppl in reviewing the club for 6 or so weeks and if so have they planned for a number of outcomes you'd hope.
Favoured one is a clean sequenced event, that leads to changes announced as the season finishes, with others focused on the other variable outcomes of the ongoing season.
Agreed, I took some re assurance that within their Roma comms announcing the manager had been sacked, the essence of it seemed to be talks to replace were already underway and an announcement made once finalised. A more pro active stance than we've deployed in the past
one thing I'm not too bothered about in honesty, if TFG want to set out their own path, and know someone more suitable than KT to do so, then go for it.
Thelwell a hard job to judge, some glaring transfer misses (fullback as you say) but as we all say, knife to a gunfight trying to do business
when i say not bothered, i mean more like if they kept him or not
i lean towards give him a chance, but as always if there's bigger & better who've given you encouragement that'd they'd take it on with better suitability go for it
It’s a tough one. We only tend to focus on the bad ones I guess , maupay being a prime example but there have been some good. He was after ndiaye for a while and those that slipped away were due to financial. Jury out still imo.
I'd love to see him in a fluid 3421, I think he'd looked great in it. Especially with someone Athletic, pacy on the left who can cross. I just don't see that happening during Dyches tenure
That's what he is, he didn't excel in France on the wing he has done decently there despite the system. This manager does my head in with how rigid he is. Get Dwight back on the left, Ndiaye in the ten.
Difficult one Dave....suspect like Walsh/Brands before him under the Moshiri/Kenwright axis he was given a remit and was then constantly undermined or simply bypassed when it came to signings by Joorabchian and Raiola who clearly had massive influence on the Launderer..would give him a fresh start👍🏼
For me, Maupay aside, he's made good signings. Also has been signing players who can play the way Dyche wants but also play in other systems showing he is thinking of life after Dyche.
It's a bit harsh to criticise the Harrison loans. He's someone Dyche likes and it has been favourable loan terms given Leeds's situation. His loan was a no brainer for me, he works hard and keeps himself fit, I was hoping for a bit more quality though.
> He's had to be creative with deals and proved he can do that.
> Communication has been more frequent and open.
> Dealt with churn well and made inroads with academy improvements.
> I may not agree with ALL of his buys, but he's relentlessly stuck to the ones he believes in.
> I didn't expect him to publicly challenge Dyche, but he also didn't have to over egg support publicly, thought it came across weak and a sign he may also not be setting stretching expectations.
> He has brought in 3x9s and still all seem short of being regulars, Broja pending.
Agreed, I've not given up yet on him, some green shoots of promise, when we've seen him play. I do wonder in hindsight (pre injury) if we could have loaned him out.
I don't think we were able to it would have been just DCL and beto then and what do you do if one gets injured?? I saw lots of promise in him and I'm excited to see if he can push on from there
> Some money spent seems short sighted, O'Brien for example, did we need to rush to secure him for 18m to not be used for 12 months in a squad short in other areas. Suggests may not be alligned with the manager.
> Failure to address the FB areas, lots of low cost options have been available.
Maybe they thought Brainthwaite's value may be reached, so he was bought in case. But I agree the left back area is thin and we still lack for pace on the right wing. His sales have been decent and I believe another manager would have enough in the squad to be midtable, but KT's record is mixed.
Two more reasons, I'm wondering if TFG may make a manager change before or during Jan is our tough set of Dec fixtures and that our rebuild needs to start in the new year, given the amount of contracts ending next summer.
I do think that Dyche can decide the outcome of that. If he continues performing at 0.9 ppg perhaps that may well happen, if he improves, perhaps he will last till the summer. If a manager we want however IS available, I'd do it instantly but I don't know the answer to that question.
By all accounts, I've heard some tell me the plan was to bed him in ahead of next summer. Who knows I guess, I quite like him tbh but was he that important to spend that money on, and leave other areas thin. I guess only time will answer that question.
Yeah probably, we have done that with Chermiti too, buying for the future is one thing but at these prices we need instant impact. It was a misuse of funds, but it's easier to get a CB on the drip than a forward or difference maker as seen by multiple windows of us chasing a wing forward.
Recruitment certainly isn’t aligned with the manager (that’s a good thing with Dyche on his way out). Many of our signings are players who can thrive in a post-Dyche system. They’re simply not used optimally by our stubborn dinosaur of a manager.
Very much this……& it’s why the argument that he’s doing a great job is massively untrue.
We have a group of players capable of so much more, but a manager who isn’t.
If I pose a question. Is Sean Dyche getting the best out of the current squad. I'd agree that the answer to me is no. I'm cool with the fact others will say he is under difficult circumstances, but I'm with you.
I could probably talk for an hour on this and many more positives/negatives but a few of the negatives I cannot get past.
The idea of a clean break is risky, but we've been safe as a club for far too long and the last time we had a window of change under Moshiri we fluffed it. Full clean out for me
Fair points, I'd add though that unlike Walsh and Brands, he's largely balanced the madness of the Moshiri era, and has taken long-term steps re scouting networks. Not perfect but I think he's done enough to earn at least a year's extension,but he may well be ready for a clean break himself.
Alot have been crying out for a footprint and recruitment in S/America, especially since the change in post brexit visas, that's definitely a welcome move. It'll be interesting what it leads to.
My thoughts are that TFG will look at changing Ownership, Board, DoF and Manager as being simply far too much too soon, and will view DoF as the link between Board and Dugout so will stay pat there to enable Board and Manager to change immediately.
Also the football strategy and DNA will run through the DoF so they’ll want to see, at close quarters, what Thelwell’s view is as it may well fit theirs but he simply hasn’t been able to implement it under a structure and managers that others have poorly chosen.
Well reasoned. I agree on most points there. I'm still very on the fence. The lack of full backs and support for Dyche (and his Lampard love in) don't reflect too well on him. But I can just imagine the chaos with a new board, DOF and manager all at once.
Agreed, it's definitely a consideration, I can understand both sides of that coin, wherever it lands. Lots of mitigation exists, to support the case for his defence and lot's will have plenty to add to the case to move him on.
Am with you; far too many misses, especially in attacking areas; just cos you pay nothing upfront doesn’t mean “value”. Little evidence of academy or scouting progression, development of a style of play (beyond long diags). My view is lose Thelwell, get interim in for Dyche whilst finding new DoF 💪
A really good point mate, often ppl say.... well they had no money upfront so X is the best of a bad bunch. If that's the case, why not use a loan instead, why commit to a stretching sum, whether its now or later, it's stlll needs to be paid. Todays pain also impacts tomorrows joy.
Comments
More importantly for me right now, should we worry about TFG’s Roma implosion? Is our happy news becoming worrying? 😬
Decisive action is far better than doing nothing when things are failing…..& if you get it wrong don’t be afraid to correct it early.
My five minute visit to Twitter to check the North American Toffees account, was an exercise and negativity!
Thank you for bringing the bluesky sense back to me 😉
Of course, it’s the hope that….
https://bsky.app/profile/greenallefc.bsky.social/post/3laqraa2dcc2a
Ideally when/if all goes through, new CEO will be announced within days to start immediately. That's the pivotal decision for me
Thelwell a hard job to judge, some glaring transfer misses (fullback as you say) but as we all say, knife to a gunfight trying to do business
i lean towards give him a chance, but as always if there's bigger & better who've given you encouragement that'd they'd take it on with better suitability go for it
getting a CEO in is immediate priority
Seen a few names doing the round for a Ceo, could be a statement going to take one employed and delivering from another PL club.
Harrison aside I think its a solid 8/10 from him.
Numbers at Leeds were good, so it's a bit of a head scratcher.
I wouldn't keep him though.
Is there anyone we have that isn’t wasteful ? How many people do we get in the box for creative players to hit ?
It’s an indictment on the manager not the players as they all have & will do it elsewhere
> He's had to be creative with deals and proved he can do that.
> Communication has been more frequent and open.
> Dealt with churn well and made inroads with academy improvements.
> I may not agree with ALL of his buys, but he's relentlessly stuck to the ones he believes in.
> I didn't expect him to publicly challenge Dyche, but he also didn't have to over egg support publicly, thought it came across weak and a sign he may also not be setting stretching expectations.
> He has brought in 3x9s and still all seem short of being regulars, Broja pending.
> Failure to address the FB areas, lots of low cost options have been available.
We have a group of players capable of so much more, but a manager who isn’t.
The idea of a clean break is risky, but we've been safe as a club for far too long and the last time we had a window of change under Moshiri we fluffed it. Full clean out for me