I've never understood why in matters of culture and taste, people reply by saying, effectively, 'that's shit.' The most you can say is 'I don't like it' as there is no objective standard and you're unlikely to say 'Now you've said that, I agree and I've changed my mind.' - ThreadSky

brianmoore666.bsky.social • 51 days ago

I've never understood why in matters of culture and taste, people reply by saying, effectively, 'that's shit.'
The most you can say is 'I don't like it' as there is no objective standard and you're unlikely to say 'Now you've said that, I agree and I've changed my mind.'

Comments

stewartmanley.bsky.social•51 days ago

Exactly. It's like people who declare things are "not art", a statement which really boils my piss. If the artist says it's intended as art, then it is. All the observer gets to decide is if they like it or not.

darksatanicmills.bsky.social•50 days ago

Apologies

mlungu.bsky.social•51 days ago

“That’s shit” and “I don’t like it” mean the same in the context of an aesthetic judgment. One is simply more polite.

50ishgardener.bsky.social•51 days ago

Totally. To many people their own personal taste is the bar against which other’s tastes are judged, often (in UK at least) with a large slice of class-based snobbery…

50ishgardener.bsky.social•51 days ago

Had this discussion with a very posh lady at an exhibition of modern art, some of which was very interesting but some looked like badly assembled IKEA, requiring (to my mind) little skill or imagination to conceive. But because the artist was “famous” in the right circles, the piece was “profound”🤷‍♂️

mlungu.bsky.social•51 days ago

Sure, but art is not about skill or technique. That is called craft. Art opens up a world and invites you in, and part of the inviting-you-in is the setting. Even if you weren’t invited-in in the way the artist intended, the artwork clearly didn’t pass by unnoticed. It made you engage with it.

50ishgardener.bsky.social•51 days ago

Partial agree: Agree that art opens one’s eyes to the world, but personally I like my art to involve a degree of skill and imagination otherwise for me it’s unlikely to open my eyes to anything bar the gullibility of some…

50ishgardener.bsky.social•51 days ago

Though you raise an interesting point: The lady at the RA where I was having the conversation was very much of the view that the work in question was intrinsically“art” , regardless of how this philistine chose to view it. So is it the art itself or the interaction with the viewer?? Interesting

lindakr.bsky.social•51 days ago

I (respectfully) disagree 😉.
"That's s**t" implies the other person has it wrong.
"I don't like it" means you recognise others may have a different opinion to yours.

mlungu.bsky.social•51 days ago

We’re not disagreeing. Kant says that an aesthetic judgment is experienced the same way as a rational judgement, ie, as if there is an objective component to it. It’s only once you bring yourself back to reason that you can rationalise that your experience is subjective. 1/

mlungu.bsky.social•51 days ago

“It’s shit” is the subjective moment carrying forward, while “I don’t like it” is an acknowledgment by the rational mind that taste is subjective. 2/2

lindakr.bsky.social•51 days ago

😳 Glad we agree 😊

brianmoore666.bsky.social•51 days ago

No, 'that's shit' implies there is a standard of worth.
'I don't like' means I disagree.

ellyblom.bsky.social•51 days ago

Is there really no standard of worth?
On one end of the continuum, some art close to everyone will find awe inspiring & sublime (Wow!)
On the other hand pieces close to everyone agrees are utterly random & insignificant (That's shit!)
Huge subjective twilight zone in the middle (I don't like it).

mlungu.bsky.social•51 days ago

In terms of opinion, yes, I agree, but not in terms of aesthetics, or “taste”. You don’t really disagree with a piece of music, food, or an artwork. You like it or dislike it

brianmoore666.bsky.social•51 days ago

We're splitting hairs here. I know what you mean, so we can disagree. Have a good one.

peejay05.bsky.social•51 days ago

You're right. It's like when people say a comedian is 'not funny', instead of saying 'I do not find them funny'.

mlungu.bsky.social•51 days ago

I disagree. I think they are just two different moments along the same line. Objectivity is something that happens retrospectively. We take our subjective experience, rationalise it, and come up with an idea of what is objective (since we can never get to the objective directly). 1/

mlungu.bsky.social•51 days ago

The difference between your examples is that the first is a judgment made from subjectivity, while the latter is a judgment made once subjectivity has been rationalised. 2/2

williamsaled.bsky.social•51 days ago

If you react in a 'that's shit' type manner, then it just shows a closed attitude to that art form. It also probably indicates the need to explore that reaction by exposing yourself to forms of the shit you opposed, to understand the reaction better, and have a more informed opinion...

stennotstan.bsky.social•51 days ago

I'm never going to be open minded with respect to the work of Tracey Emin though. That's just shit!

williamsaled.bsky.social•51 days ago

It's perception. Her earlier work was possibly more to elicit a reaction (good or bad) but perhaps having cancer has made her want to produce more 'worthy' art...

stennotstan.bsky.social•51 days ago

I understand and agree to a point but am unconvinced that 'worthy' is a suitable metric for art.

williamsaled.bsky.social•51 days ago

It was a term used to differentiate between her earlier work, where she's produced work for a reaction, with her later work where she perhaps wants to produce stuff that may have a longer life. I suspect though, over time, she'll just be a footnote in 20th/21st century art...

pughrob.bsky.social•51 days ago

My late mother used to say the world would be a very boring place if we all like the same things.
And she was dead right.

kingofn5.bsky.social•51 days ago

Have you heard Jedward's latest album?

brianmoore666.bsky.social•51 days ago

No, but it's shit.

kingofn5.bsky.social•51 days ago

QED

therealjulianlewis.bsky.social•50 days ago

Part of growing up for me was realising that I don't like some really good music, and that my opinion of it is no reflection on the music itself.

lindakr.bsky.social•50 days ago

I agree. People are aghast when I say I don't like the Beetles (their music, not them personally)!! OK, I like some of their songs, but not many 🫣🤣

pwrussell.bsky.social•51 days ago

I was taught from a very early age that arguments over taste are a complete waste of time.

rudolfhooker.bsky.social•51 days ago

In keeping with the current fad for extremification, Brian.

ladyvaderofq.bsky.social•51 days ago

Limited vocabulary.

jdburns.bsky.social•50 days ago

Quite. The fact that other people might have different tastes appears too difficult for them to comprehend.

clonbrusk.bsky.social•51 days ago

In my 83 years I can’t remember making a nasty critical comment about any art form. If it gives enjoyment to someone then I always accept it must have positives I just can’t see myself.

smilo998.bsky.social•51 days ago

Doom hyperbole.

grumpymuppet.bsky.social•51 days ago

Unfortunately too many people can’t distinguish between matters of subjective opinion and objective fact. It’s quite a problem in contemporary society

brexitvoyeur.bsky.social•51 days ago

“That’s the shit” has an entirely different meaning. Shit and fuck are the most versatile words in the English language!

richardham1956.bsky.social•51 days ago

Not only true in case of culture and taste. Don’t think I have ever heard anyone in a heated discussion when told that they are wrong responding “you know you are absolutely right. I am totally wrong.”.

yesfan1.bsky.social•51 days ago

Tho Piero Manzoni's work is shit!

mark-dingman.bsky.social•51 days ago

Both pictures, painted centuries apart, were considered nothing special to “that’s shit” when originally displayed.

mark-dingman.bsky.social•51 days ago

Picasso’s 1937 Guarnica, Rembrandt’s 1642 Night Watch.

smurfomatic.bsky.social•51 days ago

A lot like arguing with the ref - they aren't going to change their decision just because you don't like it

stevehookham.bsky.social•51 days ago

So true, and we shouldn’t take it personally when our tastes don’t align with someone else’s.

voodersh.bsky.social•51 days ago

I think you can feel that something is objectively bad and say "that's shit", but you should be able to say exactly how it fails to meet its aims.

pjlythgoe.net•51 days ago

It is in the same ballpark as telling people who you want to persuade of your point of view that they must be stupid to believe what they do.

briancoventry.bsky.social•51 days ago

Like that a lot Brian. Thank you, I'll take that forward 👍

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