I'd push this even further, in that people who identify with Trump, even as they're suffering from policies he's put in place, are sustaining themselves from the surplus enjoyment that emanates off of the suffering of their perceived enemies. - ThreadSky

elbarto.bsky.social • 30 days ago

I'd push this even further, in that people who identify with Trump, even as they're suffering from policies he's put in place, are sustaining themselves from the surplus enjoyment that emanates off of the suffering of their perceived enemies.

Reposted from Norm Charlatan

One of my fears about Democrats being so absent in their response to Trump is that, even if egg prices go up or society collapses, it only makes Trump more popular. There’s a reason the median sports fan loves the Lakers, Cowboys, Yankees, and Duke. People love to support winners. You have to fight.

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elbarto.bsky.social•30 days ago

pbvdc.bsky.social•30 days ago

This is a big one, though I wonder if it's the classic taking more joy in watching someone you don't like suffer than in your happiness.... But I'm not sure the difference here is even important when the end result is the same.

elbarto.bsky.social•30 days ago

I guess that's what I mean by that. They're not enjoying their own oppression in a masochistic sense (maybe some of them are), they're enjoying it through other people('s suffering)

pbvdc.bsky.social•30 days ago

I agree with you 100 percent. There is also some god mixed up in there like suffering is noble or some similar nonsense.

elbarto.bsky.social•30 days ago

I genuinely think the only way through this is to forge new paths towards jouissance (enjoyment that's not dictated by the Other, but also isn't enjoyed simply for its transgressive quality), and those paths start to emerge during times of rebellion when we learn new ways of relating to each other.

pinkoscare.bsky.social•30 days ago

Wait, are you saying we really could change the world with art?

elbarto.bsky.social•30 days ago

I think art can be a component in stretching perceptions of the possible, but I'm not sure it changes things in a vacuum, devoid of other social, political, scientific or philosophical activity. Art is like solder that connects disperate psycho-social-politco points on the map. (maybe)

elbarto.bsky.social•30 days ago

I don't think everyone who voted for Trump is a lost cause, but I do think in order to bring them back we have to give them some way to enjoy that doesn't rely on the surplus of others' suffering.

pbvdc.bsky.social•30 days ago

The classic "just don't know how you explain to an adult that they should care about other people"

Can you transform a lust for suffering?

Of course, this would require Democratic policies that help people, which seems even more of a fantasy than ever before.

kandoh.bsky.social•30 days ago

If improvements to people's lives won votes, everyone on the ACA or the Teamsters union would vote Democrat and they don't.

anervousfriend.bsky.social•30 days ago

Yeah. Also, there are rising fascist movements in social democratic countries like France and Germany. They aren’t angry about egg prices, they’re angry about brown people.

elbarto.bsky.social•30 days ago

I guess my point is that words won't change most people, and progressive policy won't change most people, but finding new ways of interfacing with the world (new ways of fighting/surviving/loving/etc) does change how we're wired. Breaking out of the narrow band we live in and exploring the outside.

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