Greece is still in shit constantly bailed out by EU
Unemployment, now below 10%, is expected to keep declining but more slowly than in the past. Inflation is projected at 3.0% in 2024 and is expected to moderate only gradually to around 1.9% by 2026. The general government deficit is projected to k
You would think they would try reducing govt blocks to entrepreneurship, streamline govt spending, change labor policies, lean into alt energy, and go almost entirely digital to maximize efficiency since they have been constantly behind the other EU countries.
Perhaps that's true this time, but that was said of Japan for many years, and despite their high national debt, Japan kept chugging on without significant economic problems.
I think the real issue for China remains, how can the government continue to provide that large population with enough food, goods, and services it's people need and expect, given that nation's arable acres and finite natural resources?
To be fair, the investment content of China's debt is much higher than ours. (Think infrastructure.) So they're adding assets as they add debt; we do less of that.
USA does, but nowhere near China’s (primarily driven by immigration)
And Russia’s demographics aren’t being helped by having hundreds of thousands of its men killed
From 1992 to 2012, and again since 2016, Russia's death rate has exceeded its birth rate, which has been called a demographic crisis by analysts. Consequently, the nation has an ageing population, with the median age of the country being 40.3 years https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia
Yep.
One thing I read about frequently (and listen too), is stuff about demographics and population decline in developed nations. Peter Zeihan has done some interesting summaries of this.
Japan and South Korea are two severely impacted nations.
Russian demographic collapse almost irreversible
#Trump will impede competition and capitalism via mercantile protectionism. Whether American brains and innovation survives Trump loons will be interesting.
They don't need to invade Taiwan, just make the sea around Taiwan too dangerous for shipping insurers. Do that, and Taiwan is isolated without firing a shot at Taiwan. There won't be any war.
Chinese Construction Companies Used Cheap Re-Bars—That Can Be Bent With Hands And Low Quality Concrete—That Crumbles. Bridges Have Collapsed And High Rises Wall Falling Off. Gas-Lines Improperly Installed-Causing Fires/Explosions To Condos-That Also Had Condo Fire Hoses With No Water Supply.
But who does China owe its 'debt' to, George? Itself? Because if that's the case, no problem.
To other people, in RMB? If so, as a currency-issuing govt it can just issue the money required.
Or is it to people in other currencies? Which ones?
China , just like USA and ruZZia dont owe anyone money , it’s monopoly paper that they keep printing with nothing to back it up with ( unlike in the past it was backed with gold)
People can't figure out that more money chasing the same number of goods and services causes price inflation. All that money we don't tax away from multi-millionaires and billionaires is causing the other money to depreciate in buying power. https://bsky.app/profile/epinnoia.bsky.social/post/3lcogbmcsos2g
About time mainstream media started paying attention to something other than CPC propaganda. It's exhausting hearing how "great" China is doing when for decades it's been all tofu dregs and Photoshop.
this debt is mostly owed to internal creditors.. exactly as JP.. so, a clever monetary policy allowing for more inflation can reduce its impact considerably.. western press is all negative @ CN.. internal debt rarely stiffles growth.. so, look elsewhere...
It's debatable. China's rapid economic growth was sustained by three pillars: massive domestic investment, real estate, and exports. Two of those three have crumbled, and the world is reacting cooly to the new surge of exports.
Also China's youth unemployment is so high they stopped publishing it.
It’s a little disconcerting that the world’s two largest and most important economies are so debt ridden. Let’s have a do-over and wipe the debt slate clean ☺️.
WHO n HOW will these debts be “collected”? America could end all its debt n fund the “good stuff” by taxing “fairly” but ALL THE POLITICIANS WOULD NOT GET WEALTHY!! WE THE PEOPLE HAS BEEN DIVIDED TO ENRICH THE FEW!
There's a common misunderstanding - there's national debt (sovereign), corporate debt & personal debt.
China owns less than 1 trillion in US debt, that's a hair over a "rounding error".
They buy it because people, businesses & countries try to get the best return on investment.
Also: China's population is in net decline and aging fast. Almost half are over 50. The official state forecast says China's population will drop by half over the next several decades.
The bad economic trends will accelerate, and soon.
Good data! Very interesting. Do you think the Chinese will ever stop burning coal? Makes no sense at all- to limit ours thru pollution credits - and them guys just keep happily polluting! They have a huge population so keep them happy, right? We wouldn't want to have another public rebellion right?
China is already the richest country in the world by PPP GDP (US is still richest by nominal GDP), so being the richest by TC-PPP GDP is less surprising when taking that into account. But it shows how much richer China is: its TC-PPP GDP is twice that of the US! Per capita, US inthe middle the pack.
And you are making a huge mistake here- even if GDP is "higher" under PPP dollars their wealth is a small fraction of the US (~60%) with again, 4.5X as many people.
With much of that wealth tied up in property made out of tofu dregs.
PPP is an invention to lie to people- tell us how when the real cost of a car is more than 2X as much in China based on taxes that their PPP is lower?
Get an apartment in any industrial city in China- its as expensive as the US.
Some weird feel-good clickbait, source hidden behind a paywall. No explanation about what's non-financial debt and how it matters, just "here, eat a chart!"
So... Here, eat another chart
(public source btw)
I'm went to see the terracotta warriors in 2012 in nw china, a medium-sized city called xian, no subway...
I revisited last year, 11 subway lines with 235 stations in total. All with "public" toilets, no one spitting, pissing, no junkies etc (yes, talkin 'bout you, NY!)...
Just saying...
It’s ugly now, but at least NYC has great public transit in the functional sense, compared to most of the US. You’d think that helping commuters in small- to mid-sized cities would be good for both workers and businesses, i.e. worth the investment.
China’s Belt & Road Initiative along with its maritime equivalent investment since 2013, is now beginning to see a return, with contracts in 150 countries the across the world, for precious minerals & metals it’ll see China become far more successful economically, eventually outstripping the US.
Lack of fair taxation of the wealthy is the one of the main causes of high national debt, and it needs to be fixed.
Is China experiencing similar problems? I don't know, let's fix our country and let the Chinese worry about theirs.
Admit it George, as a conservative you have lent your voice at one point to the Republicans choir that calls Social Security and Medicare "spending", and seeks to rob we old people of what we have paid for all our lives.
China has been collapsing since the pandemic but with their central control, little news gets out that they don't want to get out. They stopped updating their unemployment numbers last summer.
I wouldn’t care except like all the dickheads they’ll start a (really bad, even worse than the ruzzians) war to look like and feel like they are ‘powerful’
Government debt is private sector surplus. Let’s modernize our understanding of economics so we can fix real problems and not be suckered by political scapegoating! #FindingTheMoney movie #MMT #ReclaimDemocracy
Their over building was also done with "tofu dregs" construction. Buildings, bridges etc just falling down. Thousands of empty buildings left incomplete. Building whose apartments were sold & occupied also incomplete
Because the CCP has no "codes" or regulations they have sink holes & landslides all over & nothing being corrected. They can't even build military equipment that they don't cut corners.
Also a reminder: our REAL DEBT which includes our UNFUNDED LIABILITIES (for fun, read the GAO yearly budget report) is several times the acknowledged debt that is commonly reported.
China has also invested in resources overseas (via Belt and Road) that will have long term positive economic benefits. We have squandered trillions on wars that we shouldn't have fought.
Ahh, but Chinese people save a lot of money so they can borrow internally. Compare how much of their debt is owned by foreign nations/entities to the US.
There are not domestic buyers because of structural economic manipulation / engineering that makes the currency weak, which further makes it easier to export.
? And what's wrong with that??
Discounts = more pp can afford them = faster progress with climate cleaning! 😁
Keeping factories open = more cars = more ppl = better climate; and safe jobs.
What's not to like? 😜
It's poor economic policy for China to subsidize exports instead of giving the money to Chinese consumers. Second, the world may not accept another "China Shock" as many countries are looking at tariffs against Chinese goods
China has cracked battery tech and costs. Electric cars now cheaper than gasoline. America and Europe asleep at the wheel. Too slow. Trump fossil age rubbish won't save American innovation.
What???????????? Where did your facts come from???
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As of September 30, 2024, the United States' debt-to-GDP ratio was 123%. This is because the U.S. debt was $35.46 trillion, while the average GDP for fiscal year 2024 was $28.83 trillion.
If we are trying to “compete with China” it’s already over. What are we competing for who has the best Muslim death camps? Who has the best child slave labor? Who has the best social credit system made to deny people basic necessities if they criticize the government or the people in power?
I have a friend who is ethnic Chinese. He was talking about his vacations, and he brought up the point that he doesn't see Chinese tourists internationally like he used to. I asked him why? He said because "their economy is in trouble".
Countries with economic trouble are geopolitically not good.
Who knew that authoritarian countries which embrace personality cults and put their own people in concentration camps would struggle for sustained growth? Umm…
Everyone ?
I look forward to reading an economist’s assessment regarding the impact on the US of China’s coming economic collapse.
One thing we know for sure is that fucker Bezos will still be eyeball deep in cheap shit to sell to us all.
A US economic collapse seems inevitable.
MAGAs bitch about government oversight of business, but that’s exactly what’s missing and now worse under the moron king.
The only bright spot is that the pain the coming crash will cause, especially to the ignoramus states that overwhelmingly voted for his ass, may actually wake their asses up.
I have been waiting for this the real estate shoe to drop. They aren't really our equals on the international stage. One day, yes. but they interfere with the market too much and encouraged the short term behaviors mentioned in the article.
The same voters who scream at this graph would be apoplectic at paying an American worker a decent wage to make their disposable clothing/ dollar store crap.
Part of the issue is not all value is production.
We're a service economy, a intellectual property economy even an entertainment based economy!
They have 4.5X as many people is the US- now do per capita manufacturing.
Manufacturing just 10% of the US economy. Most impacted by globalization were Baby Boomers. They are done working now. Retired. Not sure that many Rust Belt GenZers even know what manufacturing is.
They are??? Unless of course you agree that folks born between 1960 and 1964 are not Boomers even though Pew decided we were (we’re not). I was born in 1962, I’m not retired and won’t reach full retirement until 67, this is true for anyone born after 1960.
Red States paying deflated wages has been killing our treasury with those states being net-freeloaders for DECADES! Those corporations and shareholders need to pay-up and pay off our National Debt as a 5 or 10-year mortgage and wipe it out. Gone! China's problem is dealing with US excess spending!
Based on this graph, it seems like China, a Developed Empire, is WAY better off than the Oligarch Led shithole that is the United States of America.
Or is it the New Confederate States yet?!?
Do we have to wait till Jan 20 to officially change the name?
You’re not wrong - but you DEFINITELY should not try to prop the US economy as a counterbalance.
At this point, ECUADOR has a better income distribution criteria…
I somehow managed to streamline I think Newsmax this morning on day 1 and some white dude was saying people are desperately trying to get what I call a mug shot with Donald at Mar-a-Largo because he is going to fix the World.
And that's not even their (Chines)real debt level. All the locals govts are doubly multiple times more in debt but that's not allowed to be included in "national figure".¿!
And China is now in the process of weaning itself off from fossil fuels, by throwing CAPEX at it and releasing more and more OPEX down the line.
With the incoming US 'administration' taking the opposite course, burdening the country with not only more debt, but also the inability to free itself.
China permitted more coal power plants last year than any time in the last seven years, according to a new report released this week. It's the equivalent of about two new coal power plants per week.
China is building a coal power plant every day. Their green energy initiatives are pure propaganda. Visit any Chinese city and take a nice big breath to feel the burn for yourself.
Incidentally a colleague that I’m working very closely with just been to China. it’s like stepping into the 21st century he told me. not some glorified 19th century like ours.
Sure. I am your friend had a nice time in Shanghai and marveled at all of the LED lights. I guess in the 21st century you can’t drink water from the tap, breathe the air or eat food without toxic chemicals. Sounds great.
Let start at the very bottom. 1 Yuan is not worth 7.3$. It’s fictional number manufactured by CCP. China is crashing hard, but as a tyranny its easier to conceal facts behind a facade. Seeing all leaked videos from Chinese citizens via various networks its getting south & worse each month.
Well fortunately for us we were headed in the right direction on our fiscal policy, but now they elected a spend happy circus clown and he’s going to go to town on our behalf- we’ll probably end up 200% more in debt than we now at the end of his presidency!
Please learn how fiat money works.
Private debt private problem, and total private debt is a national problem.
National debt is neither a private nor a national problem.
National debt is money for the rest of us; deficits are more money for the rest of us. More money is good. https://modernmoneybasics.com
Well, that is part of the problem with China right now. Decades ago they implemented a 1 child per family policy. And now they have this problem of loads of elderly people and not many younger people to support their older years. And so they are scrambling to...
find a way to handle that. And that is going to make them focus on that rather than the environment or being sustainable. When your parents are living in poverty and you are the only child... kinda difficult to care about future generations.
This does not count the SEO and local government debts. It also does not count their made up economic numbers. It is far, far worse for China than what this article states.
as i explore debt.. its complex issue.. but your point is valid.. and for Trump..he is nothing more than..adding debt.. wo sound fiscal ..policy..example if rates lower low.. you borrow.. but also if you spend..you offset ..he does neither.. waste of college DUDE and hell IM SCIENCE.w more .insight
They have enough population for all the buildings they have, yet they still use debt to make more buildings because their economy runs on real estate projects.
It's crazy. They would be better off dumping helicopter money on the people rather than trying to prop up their RE market with debt.
That seems like a pretty subreal take. The protagonism that real state took in Chinas economy is due to a state run project that seeks to modernize all housing for everyone in China, but it's not one of the main pillars of its economy. China is still one of the biggest industrial hubs of the world.
Real estate and associated industries like Concrete and steel production accounted for about 30% of Chinese GDP. The Deflation they are seeing in their economy is largely due to the Real Estate bubble popping.
It's very likely the Chinese future looks a lot like Japan's future back in the 90s.
China’s government is more interested in illusion of economic growth over the substance of true fiscal power. Years of train to nowhere policies have finally led somewhere and it’s called derailment.
The actual data and image you need to use. Also, Since China Ruling Party ruined thier Manufacturing Base to retain power. your image really doesn't apply. China destroyed ther manufacturing so that the Chinese Billionaires wouldn't have political power. do some research. That's why GDP is not valid
I'm confused. Where does the 252% of GDP come from? According to Federal Reserve Economic Data, gross US debt is at 120% of GDP. Debt held by the public is at 96%. Household debt is at 71.5. What am I missing? (Don't have a WSJ subscription)
Comments
So funny how everyone forgot what was talk of unsustainable levels was Greece at 135% in 2007.
Unemployment, now below 10%, is expected to keep declining but more slowly than in the past. Inflation is projected at 3.0% in 2024 and is expected to moderate only gradually to around 1.9% by 2026. The general government deficit is projected to k
They could be model for implementation
And Russia’s demographics aren’t being helped by having hundreds of thousands of its men killed
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia
One thing I read about frequently (and listen too), is stuff about demographics and population decline in developed nations. Peter Zeihan has done some interesting summaries of this.
Japan and South Korea are two severely impacted nations.
Russian demographic collapse almost irreversible
🇺🇸 companies invested in China for cheaper labour.
No R&D investments in 🇺🇸
Don’t believe Indians are best engineers in the world- look at India.
Americans are inventors & entrepreneurs of the world.
Economically
Militarily
Politically
Call its bluff
Taiwan.
To state that they won't risk war to defend Taiwan.
Thus, Taiwan cedes its independence without a shot being fired.
China is counting on the West blinking first.
Munich, the Sequel
How many trillion did he add before the billionaires bought him the 2024 presidency? Bet he can triple that and maybe go higher…. 🙄
To other people, in RMB? If so, as a currency-issuing govt it can just issue the money required.
Or is it to people in other currencies? Which ones?
You know a lot more about money than George. I hope he has a will to learn.
https://bsky.app/profile/epinnoia.bsky.social/post/3lcogbmcsos2g
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-21/modern-monetary-theory-wins-new-fans-in-china-as-growth-tumbles?embedded-checkout=true
Trump’s tanking it now and he’s not even in office yet.!!
And what's that got to do with China?
Unlike Tesla.
Also China's youth unemployment is so high they stopped publishing it.
Worthless paper not backed by gold-just like shit
China owns less than 1 trillion in US debt, that's a hair over a "rounding error".
They buy it because people, businesses & countries try to get the best return on investment.
The bad economic trends will accelerate, and soon.
https://www.npr.org/2023/03/02/1160441919/china-is-building-six-times-more-new-coal-plants-than-other-countries-report-fin
So failed.
Not even close, the US will break 30 trillion in Q4 2024.
China is struggling to reach 19 trillion.
With much of that wealth tied up in property made out of tofu dregs.
Get an apartment in any industrial city in China- its as expensive as the US.
So... Here, eat another chart
(public source btw)
I revisited last year, 11 subway lines with 235 stations in total. All with "public" toilets, no one spitting, pissing, no junkies etc (yes, talkin 'bout you, NY!)...
Just saying...
Love that young woman. 😀
Is China experiencing similar problems? I don't know, let's fix our country and let the Chinese worry about theirs.
China has been collapsing since the pandemic but with their central control, little news gets out that they don't want to get out. They stopped updating their unemployment numbers last summer.
https://allthatsinteresting.com/chinese-ghost-cities
In the US we go big AND go home.
Discounts = more pp can afford them = faster progress with climate cleaning! 😁
Keeping factories open = more cars = more ppl = better climate; and safe jobs.
What's not to like? 😜
Apart from Canada, which other countries are considering tariffs on China's goods?
AI Overview Google
Learn more
As of September 30, 2024, the United States' debt-to-GDP ratio was 123%. This is because the U.S. debt was $35.46 trillion, while the average GDP for fiscal year 2024 was $28.83 trillion.
Countries with economic trouble are geopolitically not good.
Everyone ?
One thing we know for sure is that fucker Bezos will still be eyeball deep in cheap shit to sell to us all.
A US economic collapse seems inevitable.
The only bright spot is that the pain the coming crash will cause, especially to the ignoramus states that overwhelmingly voted for his ass, may actually wake their asses up.
We're a service economy, a intellectual property economy even an entertainment based economy!
They have 4.5X as many people is the US- now do per capita manufacturing.
We could balance the budget if not for freeloaders.
Or is it the New Confederate States yet?!?
Do we have to wait till Jan 20 to officially change the name?
At this point, ECUADOR has a better income distribution criteria…
Makes for very different debt outcomes. Why some want to throttle US immigration?
please tell me this is just a bad dream
The US shot its wad on...tax cuts?
So there's that.
With the incoming US 'administration' taking the opposite course, burdening the country with not only more debt, but also the inability to free itself.
STAY
TRAILING
EDGE.
#coal
#fossilfuel
#climate
#Oil
China permitted more coal power plants last year than any time in the last seven years, according to a new report released this week. It's the equivalent of about two new coal power plants per week.
Truth is, of course they're polluting their environment. So have we. In fact, we've exported our problems.
But while the US is stuck eternally in the past, with big corporate interests polluting politics, China is forging ahead.
The people who have been screaming about debt my whole life are the same people who are constantly wrong about everything else.
Private debt private problem, and total private debt is a national problem.
National debt is neither a private nor a national problem.
National debt is money for the rest of us; deficits are more money for the rest of us. More money is good.
https://modernmoneybasics.com
Yeah, all that safe, quality infrastructure, or, as it is called in China, Tofu Dreg construction.
It's crazy. They would be better off dumping helicopter money on the people rather than trying to prop up their RE market with debt.
It's very likely the Chinese future looks a lot like Japan's future back in the 90s.
"Let them eat static." ~ Khan
"You let them eat?" ~ Republicans
https://carnegieendowment.org/posts/2024/08/what-is-driving-chinas-long-dated-bonds?lang=en
https://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates-bonds/government-bonds/us