this is really basic of a thought to have but i don't understand how anyone with experience being perceived as female can look at how trans women are treated and think those women have more in common with cis men than themselves
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I think a lot of them are wrapped up in this concept of misogyny being inherit to an idea of womanhood rooted in biology. And that conversely misogyny and predation as practiced by cis men is inherit to their being. It’s a very pessimistic bioessentialism that makes sexism immutable.
As a non-binary afab, trans women seem very feminine to me. They put more effort into and feel more strongly about their gender identity then I ever have, and it's very clear that they deserve care, protection, and solidarity of other women.
yes!! i mean they count even if they didn't put the effort in too!! but there's an affinity there to something in womanhood thart i didn't find compelling but that nonetheless is clearly Correct
There’s this thing people say, like oh you can’t say anything for fear someone will take offence and… no. There’s another ’we can always tell’. We can tell when someone is stumbling over language but means well, and when they don’t.
I think it's really rooted in seeing transness as a costume, since that means that trans women's experience of misogyny a) could stop whenever they "take off the costume" and b) is self-inflicted. Very wrong-headed obviously, but yeah
At the core of that is this terfy notion that womanhood is defined by oppression and … honestly I can’t see anything more ANTI-feminist than that. Like, yes, sexism exists, but must it forever?
Why shouldn’t womanhood be equal to any other gender, and why shouldn’t anyone be able to opt out of any gender role they don’t want? THAT’s feminism. Costumes are awesome, too. It doesn't need to be a serious thing at all and it's completely twisted that people want to police it.
i think even if you do define womanhood as oppression you can find trans women to also clearly be women, i just try so hard not to entertain that perspective that i didn't even think about this argument
It's the only way I can explain a lot of terf notions, honestly. But, yes I 100% agree with your point that trans women are women in those experiences, as well, and the initial thread is so spot on.
When I've actually had the opportunity to talk with cis women about being trans, they're very understanding. Especially regarding the common ground of misogyny as you're describing.
The problem is there's so few of us and so many of them.
womanhood is about more than experiencing misogyny but it seems so uncompassionate to not extend solidarity to others who clearly are in the same boat as you oppression-wise
It's disappointing to see folks not empathize & seek common cause with others who have been minoritized by the same system - yet I see it along so many axes & try to watch that I'm not doing it myself.
i guess i usually empathize with trans women from the perspective of being trans, because i am so alienated from womanhood for personal reasons, but it is worthwhile to also see that the transmisogyny has a lot of overlap with the misogyny i get hit with by being perceived as a woman too
not because i don't see womanhood as real it's just hard to empathize through that path because of trauma. but it's worth thinking about reasons for solidarity sometimes
sorry if this is clumsily worded, i am a bit high and thinking about who gets extended compassion and how, and how to change minds about how to do that
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The problem is there's so few of us and so many of them.