I keep seeing people call the AfD fascist, neo-Nazi, etc. but is it? Don’t get me wrong, it’s despicable and certainly has fascist and neo-Nazi elements but isn’t the party itself just run of the mill Euro right wing populism? Or am I desensitised from 30 years of racist Danish political discourse? - ThreadSky

magnusz.bsky.social • 7 days ago

I keep seeing people call the AfD fascist, neo-Nazi, etc. but is it? Don’t get me wrong, it’s despicable and certainly has fascist and neo-Nazi elements but isn’t the party itself just run of the mill Euro right wing populism? Or am I desensitised from 30 years of racist Danish political discourse?

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danhf.bsky.social•6 days ago

magnusz.bsky.social•6 days ago

I think that’s funny and punchy, but I don’t think it’s true 🙂 There’s a meaningful distinction to be made, both politically and analytically, between right-wing populist parties and fascist parties/organisations imo.

danhf.bsky.social•6 days ago

I now increasingly tend to think that the current dismal tide of right-wing populism is a mutation of older forms of fascism: certainly not the same thing, but driven by similar energies.

magnusz.bsky.social•6 days ago

Yes! The völkisch ideology of restoring the nation by purging corrupt and foreign elements is shared heritage for sure. But right-wing populists are part of and operate within the institution of liberal democracy, which I don’t think is the case for fascists.

danhf.bsky.social•6 days ago

But that is indeed a very thin line, no? Many far-right and fascist-adjacent parties have in the past operated within those liberal-democratic institutions – until they saw an opportunity to demolish them from the inside out.

magnusz.bsky.social•6 days ago

But then they are fascists! Is my point. But I think it’s a meaningful distinction to make that right-wing populists want to promote their ideas with the space of competitive electoral politics offers by liberal democracy, while fascists only exploit liberal democracy when useful for other ends.

linkeliteratur.bsky.social•6 days ago

The AfD doesnt work within the institution - take a closer look on the regional levels. They dont care; they use pasrts of it - but only to destroy and sabotage.

historyned.bsky.social•6 days ago

This is a shift we are looking at in a research group how the far right is turning towards the hijacking of the constitutional order across Europe rather than outright opposition.

historyned.bsky.social•6 days ago

More effective to claim the mantle of constitutionality and weaponize against your enemies than to openly disparage it

paulgowder.bsky.social•5 days ago

Um... that's what we thought in America and it isn't going too well for us.

magnusz.bsky.social•5 days ago

I think you mistake my argument for making an analytical distinction with an argument for tolerating right-wing populists.

squareroots.bsky.social•6 days ago

If your party has fascist and neo nazi elements then you are a nazi party.

sojajunge.bsky.social•7 days ago

Of course like any other party the AfD has different factions but especially in East Germany the party leadership is definetely fascist (and openly so)

magnusz.bsky.social•7 days ago

What makes them fascists? Other than Nazi-apologetic posturing for example.

(To be clear I’m complete open to calling them fascist, I just want to know why!)

sojajunge.bsky.social•7 days ago

Höcke (head of AfD Thüringen and informal leader of the fascist-wing) used to publish for a neo-nazi magazine (under the pseudonym Landolf Landig) where he called for a return to the economy of national socialism, to use a blatant example, he was also recently sentenced for using a NS parole

sojajunge.bsky.social•7 days ago

I dont know how closely you follow german politics but there was a pretty huge scandal about a secret meeting between AfD members and neo-nazis last year, where they discussed mass deportation of immigrants and a "ethnopluralistic" world order

ilotem.bsky.social•7 days ago

The AfD has gone through a slightly different trajectory than most far-right Euro populist parties, as its radical Nazi-apologetic wing has become ever more dominant. So unlike other parties that toned down overt racism in quest for normalisation, the AfD has been normalised as it radicalised.

ilotem.bsky.social•7 days ago

Add a lot of pretty toxic “memory” debates about actual Nazi rehabilitation and it’s slightly different than the scandi context (här måste jag erkänna att jag kan prata mest om Sverige. Och jag antar att SD har radikaliserats ännu mer än danska högern, men har ändå inte nått AfDs nivå).

magnusz.bsky.social•7 days ago

The memory context is obv unique, but in terms of policy are the AfD suggesting anything that hasn’t already been suggested a thousand time by Pia Kjærsgaard or Geert Wilders or Jörg Haider or Jimmie Åkesson?

ilotem.bsky.social•7 days ago

I’m not sure the AfD’s policy proposals are all that coherent or helpful (and I’ve tried to understand), but with a far more radicalised discourse comes a greater potential for violence on the ground on the one hand and the “breaking things” policy on the other.

ilotem.bsky.social•7 days ago

So I’m not sure it’s only a “memory context” but embrace of growing far-right violence on the ground (unlike other contexts where “respectability” often meant distancing the party from anything like that).

proufos.bsky.social•6 days ago

The question is what you consider to be "run of the mill Euro right wing populism" today. One of the things that (so far) distinguishes the AfD from other EU parties is their Euroscepticism. In other areas they are very similar but I'd say all fall under the category of far right nationalism.

proufos.bsky.social•6 days ago

We can debate whether far right nationalism is fascist but to be honest I tend to think of this as pretty much self-explanatory. There is some fluidity between far-right, fascist, nationalist tendencies etc but Id say its more of an academic debate to be very pedantic about it.

magnusz.bsky.social•6 days ago

I agree that it is academic in the sense that they should all be combatted equally, but I do also think there’s a politically meaningful distinction. Right wing populist parties operate within the confines of liberal democracy and can be fought at the ballot box, fascists don’t and can’t.

proufos.bsky.social•6 days ago

I am not sure this distinction really stands to be honest. Both post-fascists and other authoritarians operate within liberal democracies, displaying different degrees of conformity to its norms and regulations. Moreover, fighting them at the ballot box stumbles on two main problems: >>

proufos.bsky.social•6 days ago

>> the first one is what happens when they gain majorities (eg Trump). Wait 4 years? Secondly, what happens when most political parties embrace their discourse (for strategic or ideological affinity reasons)? This, realistically speaking, offers little to no choices at the ballot box.

proufos.bsky.social•6 days ago

Fascists today do not operate through paramilitary groups - when these do exist, they usually complement (rather than replace) existing state structures. The problem we are facing is not extra-parliamentary fascist squadristi but, when these exist, their incorporation into the state.

magnusz.bsky.social•6 days ago

Sure! But I’d say Trump is a fascist - precisely because he does not respect or operate within the confines of liberal democracy, only exploits it. I don’t know about the AfD (why I ask!) but e.g. the Danish People’s Party see themselves as constrained by elections and norms of liberal democracy

woid.bsky.social•5 days ago

"Sir, there is no settling the point of precedency between a louse and a flea."

routhier.bsky.social•6 days ago

Desensitized for sure 🫶

forfaengelig.bsky.social•6 days ago

Can’t decide if that’s reassuring or concerning

magnusz.bsky.social•6 days ago

🥲

dennisredmenace.bsky.social•6 days ago

"It would also encourage the JA members who aren’t AfD members to join, potentially increasing the party’s radicalism. The automatic membership of all members under 36 would also raise the youth wing’s overall membership."

https://www.theleftberlin.com/afd-youth-radical-extremist/

dennisredmenace.bsky.social•6 days ago

Have you asked Tatjana?

https://thenew.institute/en/people/tatjana-soding

dennisredmenace.bsky.social•6 days ago

I generally prefer Robinson's take to Traverso's "post-fascism":

"Twenty-first-century fascism and a global police state involve a triangulation of far-right, authoritarian, and neo-fascist forces in civil society with reactionary political power in the state and trans national corporate capital."

dennisredmenace.bsky.social•6 days ago

Well, the völkisch / ethno-nationalist wing is now dominant within the party. Then again, their explicitly fascist youth organisation JA recently dissolved for tactical reasons in view of the upcoming election. Anyway, democratic fascism / fascist democracy it is! With or without the AfD ...

cominsitu.bsky.social•6 days ago

they seem like US Republicans to me (pejorative)

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