people have their gripes about them, but smt demon negotiations are actually the perfect gameplay system because jack frost can ask if you're afraid of him and when you tell him "no, you're the mascot," he's like, "damn right i am, i'm too cute to be a liability" and forces himself into your party - ThreadSky

iiotenki.bsky.social • 52 days ago

people have their gripes about them, but smt demon negotiations are actually the perfect gameplay system because jack frost can ask if you're afraid of him and when you tell him "no, you're the mascot," he's like, "damn right i am, i'm too cute to be a liability" and forces himself into your party

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elmore.zone•52 days ago

I love that little bastard. My rotten soldier, etc.

iiotenki.bsky.social•52 days ago

P3 FES was my first Megaten back in the day and I understood what I was doing with Press Turn so little then (I went MD>N64>GC, so I had VERY little RPG exposure until my late teens) that according to my old save, I beat Nyx with a Jack Frost that still had plain Bufu. So he's my special son, too. 😌

redgeist.bsky.social•52 days ago

Mothman after you’ve got too many demons to let him join, “well if it isn’t the asshole with too many friends!”

I lost it! 😆

runningerror.bsky.social•52 days ago

SMT demon conversations can range from „everything you say or try is wrong and you‘re pissing of an ancient deity of death and destruction“ to „you growled at a dog demon and it goes ‚Oh shit! Sorry to bother you sir. Please take all of my money‘“ and it’s frustrating, unreliable and I love it.

runningerror.bsky.social•52 days ago

In SMT V: Vengeance demons sometimes just challenge you to a push up contest or other stuff that is just an attribute check of your mc or straight up do a „Who‘s that Pokémon“ where the player has to recognize a demon by part of their silhouette. Fun stuff all around.

xylitoli.bsky.social•51 days ago

SMT4’s negotiations are great for the sheer volume of dialogue that can happen thanks to the various unlockable options for the MC. Fundraise is a favourite for being useful in a game where money is scarce and the demons are either appalled or scared of your greed in various ways.

reprapryn.bsky.social•51 days ago

Fundraise plus Stun is hilarious, because you can just keep doing it until they break the stun.

It's basically mugging gods for pocket money

borbknight.bsky.social•50 days ago

https://www.tumblr.com/freykugel/58716770279
fundraise on issachar is messed up considering the situation but also really funny

elysiumtan.bsky.social•50 days ago

Omg poor issachar

desragnell.bsky.social•52 days ago

ghostkumo.bsky.social•52 days ago

SMT conversations being as unhinged as they are is fine by me because it captures the chaotic energy of demons so well

Vanilla SMT5 I've straight up said nearly all the good writing in that game went into the demon conversations lol

elvenmonk.bsky.social•51 days ago

There was a story to vanilla smt5? Because I just recall a friend dying and then homeboy throwing his hat from a roof and then I'm fighting to be God.

iiotenki.bsky.social•52 days ago

Yeah, I think I would be hard pressed to argue with you on that, ahaha. I enjoyed the actual combat in that game and whatnot, but in terms of writing when I played it in Japanese, the demon negotiations were about the only thing I actually liked, which, definitely better than nothing, but yeah. 😩

ghostkumo.bsky.social•52 days ago

Havent played Vengeance but yeah English isnt exactly better on that front either. Fun game though.

theryusui.bsky.social•52 days ago

playing it in English the story just feels thin as fuck, like a list of things that happens that you just happen to be somewhat involved with more than an actual developing plot

i have not finished Vengeance but it seems to rely a lot on "we're interesting this time because of the curveballs"

theryusui.bsky.social•52 days ago

at the same time i understand it largely excises the one interesting plotline from the original, i.e. Vpuveb Qnmnv naq Noqvry orpbzvat cnegaref-va-pevzr

i know Qnmnv fgvyy orpbzrf gur Ynj Ureb (v.r. n ivyynva) but it's missing the context that made it compelling

ghostkumo.bsky.social•52 days ago

See that plot even felt thin to me in the original

Regardless SMTV feels like a game that was trying to do the same thing Nocturne did in a lot of ways so by the end I just felt like I got...worse Nocturne

theryusui.bsky.social•52 days ago

"most interesting plotline in SMTV" is a terribly low bar to clear!

as is "most interesting character" by sheer dint of being the only one who undergoes any meaningful change

"Face Heel Turn" is a trope i usually hate tremendously but i have to give him points for execution

mads-in-zero.bsky.social•52 days ago

Definitely my biggest grip with Soul Hackers 2 was how they basically removed the whole system. Like, the capricious inanity of trying to talk to demons is half of the fun the series provides, at least.

SMT5V's increasingly unfair Who's That Pokemon challenges are hilarious, more of that please.

mads-in-zero.bsky.social•52 days ago

"Is this Kodama or Sudama" or "can you recognize Orobas by his tail", those are funny.

"Is this Aquans or Aeros" is downright sublime, it's so rude.

scrapkingkeita.bsky.social•50 days ago

I once got Black Ooze or Slime and I wanted to throw the demon out of a window, it's great

laxjohnny.bsky.social•52 days ago

Soul Hackers 2 is a Soul Hacker game in name alone.

mads-in-zero.bsky.social•52 days ago

But then Ringo says "it's time for a Soul Hack!" and Soul Hackers all over those guys.

iiotenki.bsky.social•52 days ago

Oh man, I had no idea SH2 was like that. I still have mine in the shrinkwrap when I got it for 2000 new soon after I moved here. That's a bummer. 😩

And yeah, I lost my shit the first time that Who's That Pokemon shit cropped up for me in 5, truly unhinged, might be my favorite addition there ahaha.

azuregreatheart.bsky.social•52 days ago

Haven't played much SMT, but from what I've heard, it kind of varies from game to game how good it is. At best, you have a game like SMTV where the random enemies have more character than major party members in a lot of RPGs. At worst, it's RNG whether a demon bails mid-conversation. (1/2)

azuregreatheart.bsky.social•52 days ago

The best parts are mainly down to whether the game has varied personalities for demons and/or unique interactions. The only game I've personally played with negotiation so far is P5R, which is... Well, it's functional. Not much more than that, but at least shadows don't take stuff and bail. (2/2)

nameoftheyear.bsky.social•51 days ago

When negotiation goes poorly/unpredictably is an example of the game being good, though. It’s such a low-stakes friction in exchange for a funny, memorable, or unexpected moment. At worst you’ve only wasted like 30 secs to try again.

azuregreatheart.bsky.social•51 days ago

It's kind of the same thing critical failures in TTRPGs or misses in SRPGs do: a bit of potential frustration in exchange for some truly great moments. It does need to be carefully balanced, however, as too much randomness can be far worse than too little.

aether.revasser.net•49 days ago

I have been replaying Persona 1 because of the recent release of the PSX music patch, and I have to say P1's implementation might be my *least* favourite implementation of the negotiation system, ahaha.

SMTV/VV's though, that's wonderful.

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