As soon as you tell someone to open the terminal and start copy-pasting commands into it you've lost them and they're just going to back to Windows or Mac where they don't have to do any of that shit.
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Yep. I learned computers in the late 80s with all the DOS commands. And I just don't want to deal with that anymore. I never want to have to use a terminal. I do occasionally, but despise doing so.
At work there are a few times I must open the command prompt on a customer's machine to do something. In all cases I have the exact commands and steps written down on post-it notes because I am never going to remember a single command syntax ever.
I feel like my MacBook Pro has the potential to become terminally ill every time there’s a suggestion to access the terminal. Definitely my personal user incompetence, but I gave up on root ls-slas in 1994. I also have dyscalculia and poor visuospatial rotation 😵💫😵💫😵💫
I did a lot of copy and pasting (in Word/Excel and programs that I used in Windows). I used Windows 'command line', having started with CP/M before moving to MS-DOS and eventually Windows.
I would argue 'they' just want it to work, and not have to think about anything other than task at hand.
I use the terminal a lot by choice, but if I'm thinking about the times I actually need to do so within the normal running of my machine, they come up only once every few months.
And that's because I'm on Manjaro, and the devs keep breaking things and making forum posts with command line fixes.
I use Linux for work and on my own laptop. The last time I opened the terminal was about 8months ago and was for accessing my home web development server - hardly something the everyday computer user would need!
I'd love to know what all these tasks are that NEED terminal for!
Try an immutable distro in the uBlue family, like Aurora or Bazzite, and you'll never have to open the terminal - unless you've got some specific proprietary hardware/software needs, or you're doing something advanced or complicated. But average users, for most typical usecases, would never need it
That is only an issue with regular distros. Immutable distros are hard to break like that, and if you use a newbie-friendly distro like the ones in the uBlue family, you never have to touch the terminal unless you're doing something complicated or have very specific/proprietary h/w s/w requirements
Seconded on uBlue. If you absolutely must do something in the terminal, the most likely things are pre-baked into a 4 word command MAX, that physically can't fuck something up if you misspell it
I think honestly a lot of people are frightened by the terminal. They don’t know how to use it and are worried about accidentally doing major damage by typing the wrong things.
That and Windows/Mac are, correctly, built with many many fail-safes to prevent the user from totally hosing the system, which Linux completely lacks, because they expect you to know what actions will hose your system and simply not do them. You cannot expect this of the average user.
Okay but with most linux distros tbf there are a lot of safeguards around installation. If you use a package manager to install discord you’re never going to install a fake version that has a trojan like you can windows. (There’s winget on windows too but who uses that apart from me)
This is why SteamOS (SteamDeck) has been successful where others have not, and honestly why Valve will likely monopolize Linux installs once it's open.
Out of the box it's what a friend refers to as an "immutable distro" - a distro that discourages or prevents making lasting changes to the OS.
Purportedly, like macOS, it has its own form of "system integrity protection" in place to prevent lasting damage to the OS.
It also has WINE out of the box, via Proton, allowing for the easy installation of Windows applications, and its default GUI is not a desktop environment, but Steam itself.
Now, all of these things can be disabled or changed, if you're savvy enough. But if you're not, supposedly it does a really good job at hiding the technical bits, and preventing users from trying things they shouldn't.
macOS is a UNIX system, yet people don't treat it as such for the same reasons.
I beg to differ. Windows and Mac standard accounts have admin privilege only a password away. Linux doesn’t do that. Average user without root privileges cannot mess up.
macOS users do not have root by default, and whilst you can gain administrator privileges with a password, just as it & Linux can root with sudo, the core OS is actually an immutable APFS "snapshot" mounted read-only, and System Integrity Protection prevents manipulating it, or other system files.
Some utilities for changing system files or manipulating SIP also cannot be ran from the desktop: you must boot into the recovery environment and use its terminal for such operations.
Mac also treats file & data access differently to Windows, so "admin" means nothing when accessing protected types.
These include Photos, Documents, Desktop, User files, External Storage, Other Applications' Data, Music, Camera, Microphone, Screen Recording, Accessibility (System Control), Contacts, Calendar, Network Devices, Bluetooth, & more.
All, separate permissions with distinct authorization from admin.
i think thats mainly why flathub is so nice to use when a de or distro uses it (steamos for example)
doesnt require sudo and is generally much easier to use. its like the microsoft store in a sense
You're over-generalising "Linux". A sensible immutable distro in fact has more failsafes than Windows, that's just the nature of immutable distros. Also, users can completely hose a windows system just as easily, so your argument is invalid.
Installing 1 of Fedora's immutable options would be way over the head of any newbie - I speak from very recent experience, and would deny being a newbie. Once set up they should really find it hard to break, or modify.
I've seen something like that for Windows but the details are long forgotten.
I don't disagree. I wasn't arguing about installing Linux, but actually using it. I mean, installing even Windows by downloading the ISO from Microsoft, then installing all the drivers afterwards (maybe even *before* the setup, if your PC uses Intel RST) - is all way beyond the average user.
This is kinda where ppl misunderstand. Installing operating systems is beyond the average user. If you can do that, you can probably use Linux. It’s not that hard, lol.
Back when I was new to Linux, I remember the default Ubuntu setup having some amount of idiot-proofing, but now I use a custom install of Debian with Window Maker that I would advise newbies to stay FAR away from!
Real. though with what is happening with Windows 11 right now, I bet many people are looking for alternatives. Im sayin that cause I was in this situation myself. Win11 became unbearable so I decided to try linux out started with Linux mint and ended up choosing ZorinOS for its more modern feeling.
I've already converted a few people to Linux.
Including support.
So I'm happy when users use other operating systems.
In the server environment, I've replaced hundreds of Windows servers with Linux.
That's great because then you get paid for the support.😁
I am not suggesting that Windows doesn't have problems, but again - some irritating ads vs an OS that will explode if you update your programs in the wrong order, the choice is obvious to most.
One of my personal reasons for switching to Linux is that windows updates stopped working. Still don't know why, it just kept trying to install the same minor version each week for months. I decided installing a new OS was better than installing an old one.
That's possible. It was a Ryzen 5 1600, and I distinctly remember having minor compatibility issues between the CPU and the motherboard at the time I was building the system. Still, that CPU was only 5 years old at the time.
Yeah I've had that on a few machines and it /does/ require Linux-level tinkering about to get it working again, that sucks. Wouldn't blame anyone for ditching Windows over it.
What kind of tinkering? Something in the registry? I'm genuinely curious.
I thought maybe I just didn't have enough space on my boot drive for the new version to download successfully prior to install or something.
100%. We can debate about design, but this is the real answer. DOS came with your PC, so you bought Windows bc it ran on DOS. Now, Windows comes with your PC, so you run Windows. It's a deliberate monopoly tactic, and it works. Google pays tens of millions a year to be the default on browsers.
Once again, you're over-generalising and being biased against Linux. No immutable distro has this problem of "exploding if you update your programs in the wrong order". Heck, even some traditional package managers, which have decent dependency mgmt (like DNF5), don't have this issue either.
its amazing that u can see such a simple and objective description of operating systems and still feel the need to act like OP is some microsoft shill that you need to epicly own
i dont think thats what homie was doing, i think it was just a fair opportunity to dunk on OneDrive...in fact, i think any opportunity is a good opportunity to dunk on OneDrive
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(source: I think code is hard but terminal is a-ok)
I would argue 'they' just want it to work, and not have to think about anything other than task at hand.
I always have to wonder at this kind of criticism. You started off perfectly reasonably and ended with exploding operating systems in 10 minutes.
And that's because I'm on Manjaro, and the devs keep breaking things and making forum posts with command line fixes.
It's like Manjaro but not broken
I'd love to know what all these tasks are that NEED terminal for!
Out of the box it's what a friend refers to as an "immutable distro" - a distro that discourages or prevents making lasting changes to the OS.
It also has WINE out of the box, via Proton, allowing for the easy installation of Windows applications, and its default GUI is not a desktop environment, but Steam itself.
macOS is a UNIX system, yet people don't treat it as such for the same reasons.
They’ll use their mobile or tablet device.
Mac also treats file & data access differently to Windows, so "admin" means nothing when accessing protected types.
All, separate permissions with distinct authorization from admin.
doesnt require sudo and is generally much easier to use. its like the microsoft store in a sense
Windows?
I've seen something like that for Windows but the details are long forgotten.
Including support.
So I'm happy when users use other operating systems.
In the server environment, I've replaced hundreds of Windows servers with Linux.
That's great because then you get paid for the support.😁
I can completely uninstall Edge and break surprising parts of the system. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe!
A seemingly minor revision to 10 changed the minimum CPU requirements, requiring features unavailable on many older CPUs.
A friend of mine had the same issue and looking into it, their CPU came out 2 years before the required features.
I thought maybe I just didn't have enough space on my boot drive for the new version to download successfully prior to install or something.
Maybe some kind of handheld, even....
the number of times I had to open a terminal to install a distro: zero
the number of times I had to open a terminal to fix a problem: zero