This article is being shared quite a bit for the "40% of postdocs leave academia" statement, but I think it's worth digging into the correlation between publication metrics and success, as it's missing some discussion here 📖👀 #AcademicSky 1/ - ThreadSky

quentinlclrc.bsky.social • 34 days ago

This article is being shared quite a bit for the "40% of postdocs leave academia" statement, but I think it's worth digging into the correlation between publication metrics and success, as it's missing some discussion here 📖👀 #AcademicSky
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Comments

adamostr.bsky.social•34 days ago

This is such a good thread, Quentin! Thank you! 🙏
Publication metrics to measure one's success are dreadful. As a "failed postdoc" I'm very happy, I have a fascinating career, I use my PD experience daily and I never looked back.
My last paper contribution is in review now, 9 years after I left 🤷🏼‍♂️

quentinlclrc.bsky.social•34 days ago

Thanks, glad it resonated! Yes on that topic it also wasn't super clear how that was accounted for in the analysis, with the modified h-index they try to account for the period just after the PhD, but there are other examples like you of people publishing their work years after their PhD ended!

adamostr.bsky.social•34 days ago

Absolutely. My main PhD paper was published nearly 2 years after I graduated, and every PostDoc paper was way after ending the job.
Expecting people to finish a PhD with a portfolio of papers is just unreasonable, especially that in most cases the researcher has no impact on the timelines of the PI

nicole520.bsky.social•34 days ago

This article reminds me of reductionism and the pitfalls that follow. Reducing a social phenomenon like “success” down to publication metrics as presented in this article completely misses the bigger picture and oversimplifies what it means to be successful. We are not robots 🤖

freerangestats.info•34 days ago

I also wonder what people think the target percentage of postdocs to leave academia should be. 40% actually is surprisingly low to me.

quentinlclrc.bsky.social•34 days ago

Would be interesting to compare to the % of people at a similar career stage in other industries who also make a change and leave the sector they're in

quentinlclrc.bsky.social•34 days ago

The authors show that publication rate, hit papers (top 5% cited papers in category), and a modified h-index (2-4 years after the postdoc) are all indicators of success (staying in academia).
My problem with this is that it reinforces the belief that we should be evaluated using such metrics.
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quentinlclrc.bsky.social•34 days ago

Or, rather, I think it just reflects the way that funding and recruitment committees have been evaluating researchers for the past decades.
In the age of the Declaration on Research Assessment, many are working to change this, recognising that this method of evaluation is problematic.
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quentinlclrc.bsky.social•34 days ago

This is also true for the last part of the analysis suggesting that moving to another country for a postdoc is correlated with success. While this is likely true, it doesn't mean it should be the norm, as there are many professional & personal reasons which weigh in the decision to move or not.
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quentinlclrc.bsky.social•34 days ago

I don't think the authors intentionally omitted this ofc, but the Discussion should have mentioned all of this.
"Success" in academia is arguably meaningless (some leave academia by choice, and are perfectly happy!), it's a very personal concept, so I feel it deserves a more in-depth analysis.
5/5

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