As someone who loves to hate on both self driving cars & the push for personal protection for cyclists and pedestrians instead of building safe infrastructure, this news is so validating - ThreadSky

maaikeverbruggen.bsky.social • 2 days ago

As someone who loves to hate on both self driving cars & the push for personal protection for cyclists and pedestrians instead of building safe infrastructure, this news is so validating

Reposted from The Times & Sunday Times

Tests found that popular models with automatic braking systems hit mannequins wearing reflective material

Comments

pierocastellano.com•2 days ago

I've always been uncomfortable with the idea of being a high visibility target. Camouflage and playing dead sound like much better options with most drivers, and probably with any robot driver too.

lanrickbennett.bsky.social•1 day ago

Cc: @tomflood.bsky.social

fernmonkey.bsky.social•1 day ago

I can't help seeing self-driving as a way to avoid the effective Dutch system of "you will do hard time if you hit a cyclist with your vehicle"

phantasm.bsky.social•1 day ago

Genuine Q because I can’t find an answer anywhere: has it ever been established who’s legally responsible if one of these cars hits someone?

maaikeverbruggen.bsky.social•1 day ago

Just to be clear, the system we are talking about here is a seperate system for automatic emergency braking that is required by EU law for *all* produced (from 2022) and sold (from 2024) cars, not just vehicles that could be regarded as (proto or semi) self driving vehicles

phantasm.bsky.social•1 day ago

Fair enough. Did not read closely, my bad lol

maaikeverbruggen.bsky.social•1 day ago

No worries, cause my tweet was also talking about self driving vehicles

But there have been multiple court cases with accidents caused by Autopilot of Tesla, this article from dec 2024 claims the current tally is on 2 wins and a settlement for Tesla in the USA, but more court cases are upcoming

maaikeverbruggen.bsky.social•1 day ago

Two days ago a German court ruled ruled "Autopilot system used by the Tesla Model 3 is ‘defective,’ and is not ‘suitable for normal use’ because of phantom braking issues"

https://www.carscoops.com/2025/02/german-court-finds-teslas-autopilot-defective-after-lawsuit/#:~:text=A%20court%20in%20Germany%20has,because%20of%20phantom%20braking%20issues

jossrickard.bsky.social•1 day ago

Wonder if they lurch to the right as well

maaikeverbruggen.bsky.social•1 day ago

Do check out the work of @parismarx.com who writes a lot on the problems with self-driving vehicles and legal responsibility if you are interested in that!

maaikeverbruggen.bsky.social•1 day ago

Are you talking therefore specifically about other cars crashing into a car from behind when it brakes without cause?

Or were you under the assumption that we were talking about self driving vehicles here?

ronsteenblik.bsky.social•2 days ago

Please, let’s not forget the importance of the visibility of all modes of faster transport for PEDESTRIANS. A full yellow jacket is not necessary, but here in Paris, half the people on bicycles drive at night without any illumination, and certainly no reflective clothing.

robot-bastard.bsky.social•1 day ago

Maybe if the dumbshit pedoes would get their fucking noses out of their fucking phones then they would see the incredibly obvious bicycle approaching them.

robot-bastard.bsky.social•1 day ago

I don't understand why walkers think they own the space. It's a SHARED SPACE and it's every user's responsibility to maintain awareness of surroundings. I've never seen an incident that wasn't the groundie's fault (but boy do they love squealing about it.)

robot-bastard.bsky.social•1 day ago

The vast, vast majority of them are just walking from shop to car anyway. A quick smack is no more than what they deserve.

maaikeverbruggen.bsky.social•1 day ago

This is not only untrue (walking + public transport is one of the most common modes of transport) but also irrelevant when it comes to safety

ronsteenblik.bsky.social•1 day ago

Pedestrians DO have priority on signaled crosswalks. Do you live in a country that doesn’t. If so, remind me not to visit it.

ronsteenblik.bsky.social•1 day ago

In Paris, especially at night, it’s not just the pedestrians looking at their phones (which IMO is their right when crossing a signaled cross-walk) when green, but also meal-delivery people on bicycles, even as they approach such crosswalks (sometimes even riding no hands and with no front lamp).

maaikeverbruggen.bsky.social•1 day ago

I am both a cyclist and a pedestrian, and cyclists rarely stop at non-traffic light zebras in my experience . Pedestrians are often surprised when i actually do stop. If it is dark and we are moving between cars or shut between driving cars and parked cars,we are even harder to see for peds

robot-bastard.bsky.social•1 day ago

The difficulty of regaining momentum means that cyclists should not be expected to stop for every non-emergency situation, and if pedestrians are surprised by this it just goes to show how they've been coddled into thinking they don't need to pay attention.

ronsteenblik.bsky.social•1 day ago

Thank you. The Netherlands has good infrastructure AND a bicycle culture that respects pedestrians (and vice-versa). Paris is starting to build out the infrastructure but is very far from having such a culture. That combination makes many pedestrians fearful.

maaikeverbruggen.bsky.social•1 day ago

I think ronald and i have the same experience of growing up in a bike and coming from the Netherlands, then moving abroad. And it makes you see that cyclists do make a lot of mistakes too and exhibit unsafe behaviour. But cyclists are so endangered and attacked abroad ..

maaikeverbruggen.bsky.social•1 day ago

My robot friend, i don't think this is the best approach. Pedestrians are not our enemies, and we are also pedestrians generally as well. Plus it is only in the benefit of cars if we are attacking each other.

robot-bastard.bsky.social•1 day ago

Pedestrians should shut the fuck up and stay out of the way. They're worse for cyclists than cars, because at least with cars the system is set up to help us. Pedestrians jump in front of you, create an unavoidable collision, and then cry about how you were "going too fast".

kprovost.bsky.social•1 day ago

They’re really, really not. A pedestrian has never injured me on my bike. Cars try on a daily basis, and sometimes succeed.
I do get annoyed at pedestrians on cycle lanes, but often they have no sidewalk at all, and that’s easily fixed by taking car storage space away and using it for pedestrians.

maaikeverbruggen.bsky.social•1 day ago

Same with bikes + cars accidents, the heavier and faster participant in a collission always bares more responsibility cause they can do more damage

maaikeverbruggen.bsky.social•2 days ago

Cyclists really need lights on their bikes, absolutely agree on that one

(And preferably not the blinking ones cause they are so distracting and blinding for me as a fellow cyclist)

sundance.bikesky.social•1 day ago

OMG I saw this kid ripping an out of class Ebike last night. No helmet, riding in traffic, dark clothing, and no lights.

🤦

flyingscot1964.bsky.social•1 day ago

Blinking ones attract attention so are more visible to drivers (at least the ones that aren't checking their phones) but are difficult to judge distance to.
Fixed and blinking is best combo.

maaikeverbruggen.bsky.social•1 day ago

Dutch research says blinking is equally visible in the back, a little bit more visible in the front, but makes judging distance and speed harder , so overall in the Netherlands a solid source of light is recommended (and mandatory)

https://www.fietsberaad.nl/CROWFietsberaad/media/Kennis/Bestanden/Eindrapport_Fietsverlichting.pdf

flyingscot1964.bsky.social•1 day ago

Is that not what I said?.

maaikeverbruggen.bsky.social•1 day ago

No cause i disagree that fixed and blinking is the best combo! Not blinking is the best imo

maaikeverbruggen.bsky.social•1 day ago

That is only about visibility and safety of the blinking bike itself vs cars, and not the impact on the larger traffic.

As a fellow cyclist i find them incredibly distracting, and for me it is harder to see my environment when the light of the cyclist ahead or crossing from me is blinking

flyingscot1964.bsky.social•1 day ago

While I agree that very bright blinking (especially if misaligned or v bright front lights) can be annoying as someone who has been hit by a car I'll prioritise safety v cars.

maaikeverbruggen.bsky.social•2 days ago

Disclaimer : i know automatic braking systems do not equal self driving cars and a lot of them are actually good etc etc

Key problem is the hubris of trying to reduce the world's complexity in a computer model, at the cost of those not buying the models

paulmwatson.com•2 days ago

Well said about more than cars: Key problem is the hubris of trying to reduce the world's complexity in a computer model, at the cost of those not buying the models

maaikeverbruggen.bsky.social•2 days ago

But it is very good they did this study

philbertz.bsky.social•1 day ago

Yeah mine already stopped me twice backing out of my driveway. Hard to tell if it saved lives but it was not wrong

srboisvert.bsky.social•1 day ago

I remember Neil Stephenson having something in one of his novels where a cyclist believed if cars had to see you in order to be safe you were already marked for death and just waiting for the moment so they wore all black instead. A kind of cyclist Memento Mori.

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