I don't know how many people feel this way about Frieren on here (on Twitter apparently the series can do no wrong) but as soon as I first saw the episode about demons I immediately found how they approached the subject of a biologically evil race of humanoid creatures super weird 1/ - ThreadSky

colleensmangarecs.bsky.social • 97 days ago

I don't know how many people feel this way about Frieren on here (on Twitter apparently the series can do no wrong) but as soon as I first saw the episode about demons I immediately found how they approached the subject of a biologically evil race of humanoid creatures super weird 1/

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tomaredwood.bsky.social•96 days ago

Personally disagree, the idea is that they are monsters with the ability to mimic the emotions of people and are intelligent enough to coordinate and thus have inflated egos, they are very much so, NOT people, they have “personality” sure, but their entire existence is hunting their favorite prey

a-roman.bsky.social•96 days ago

They are basically a race of Ted Bundies. Narcissistic psychopaths who are without even a morsel of empathy. In this era, when "evil" is often blamed on circumstances, trauma, upbringing, etc., the concept of incorrigible evil that is without any redeeming qualities is usually frowned upon.

friendlyelites.bsky.social•96 days ago

I dont know I think its not done that bad, like old folklore of Fae or Changelings or any monster that pretends to be human to eat you. Just because its explored in more depth and nuance in other tellings doesn't suddenly mean the simplistic narrative of the original tales are bad.

friendlyelites.bsky.social•96 days ago

A simplistic monster in a world of characters with real depth can be explored in an interesting way because then it preys on the real feats we have of being taken advantage of. Like you can know scammers are bad on principle but when one talks to you it can be easy to fall for it, that sort of thing

colleensmangarecs.bsky.social•96 days ago

That's such a huge criticism that so many ppl have always had of fantasy works though? Like almost all fantasy games have had some "inherently evil race" that ended up getting steeped into ACTUAL racism and there was backlash because real people are the ones making these stories.

friendlyelites.bsky.social•96 days ago

But i also think that the inherently evil race when used as some generic evil force (the way Frieren uses demons) is better for narratives that want to explore the good of people. The demons aren't written as an organized collective because the demon king was slain and they scattered.

friendlyelites.bsky.social•96 days ago

They're a few offshoot forces and powerful individuals not a working community that is also ontologically evil. That way of writing them isn't steeped in racism like a lot of other fantasy stories do with evil kingdoms and races.

friendlyelites.bsky.social•96 days ago

That difference is really important because like i compared to, it makes the demons more similar to a scammer or swindler, people who's presence in your life is only to steal and hurt. Like how a bandit tribe of remnant troops is a better way to write evil soldiers than an entire evil country.

friendlyelites.bsky.social•96 days ago

You can write a bandit tribe or a group of swindlers with depth and nuance but then thats a different story with different themes and detracts from the core themes integral to Frieren.

horrorosa.bsky.social•97 days ago

i am glad that there’s people who also felt this way about the demons too. i never fully warmed up to frieren because of this sort of writing choices.

missmyk.bsky.social•97 days ago

It's strongly reminiscent of how old school D&D treats races.

colleensmangarecs.bsky.social•97 days ago

yeah that was my initial thought too and also why I'm so confused why people think that this critique of Frieren is any sort of new discussion on fantasy worlds

arsarcantum.bsky.social•97 days ago

(Big Frieren fan here) Yeah, that was definitely something that made me scratch my head when I got there. I felt the demons were treated as uncharacteristically simplistic in a series that consistently explores the depths and complexities of different lived experiences

arsarcantum.bsky.social•97 days ago

If I'm being optimistic, I'd like the realization that they are more than "just evil" to be part of the narrative journey, with our protags having to grapple with that new paradigm after everything. I'm behind in the manga, but that's what I hope for!

slitennok.bsky.social•97 days ago

Lots of people apparently want the "always evil" races back so they can watch the protagonist be awesome without feeling guilty.

And when you point out that that's not how the demons in the story are actually written they refuse to accept it.

colleensmangarecs.bsky.social•97 days ago

And it reminds me why Natsume's Book of Friends is so fucking good
It's a series that also approaches the topic of empathy and gaining more understanding of humans AS WELL as yokai. Natsume starts out hating yokai and avoiding humans but never does it veer into territory of biological evil 2/

colleensmangarecs.bsky.social•97 days ago

Some yokai are bad, some yokai are good, some humans are bad, some humans are good
sometimes the yokai aren't as bad as you think they'd be sometimes the bad humans aren't so bad either

The author actually cares to delve into all the aspects of relationships with Natsume and the outside world

colleensmangarecs.bsky.social•97 days ago

While I like Frieren a lot (the series and the character) I think her being the protag makes the series feel less willing to explore much because Frieren herself doesn't seem to care to explore that either

foolserenade.bsky.social•96 days ago

Yeah, if the show protagonist was Himmel, I'm sure it will have gotten explore. That's what I thought after watching the episode in which he gave that demon child an opportunity. But tbh I think the author just wanted to make an absolute evil antagonistic race to spare themselves effort

ontheriseav.bsky.social•96 days ago

I agree with you and Lex’s points but I feel like the show’s overall message about Demons comes from how Himmel views them not Frieren and just like how she was wrong about the value of time she’ll learn she’s wrong about this too BUT…I am anime only so the manga could have already proved me wrong😅

colleensmangarecs.bsky.social•97 days ago

Anyway while watching Frieren during a literal genocide happening this whole plot line felt WAY too familiar to real life portrayals of systematically oppressed groups by their oppressors and it didn't question that line of thinking for a second

slitennok.bsky.social•97 days ago

Oh, Frieren Demon Discourse is A Thing. Death Threats have been sent (see Lextorias' video essay on YouTube), discords have burned, etc.

For me I think it's a significant weak link in the writing. Somebody called it "the writer wrote people and then said they're not people".

colleensmangarecs.bsky.social•97 days ago

oh yeah I watched Lextorias' video because I saw so many dumb comments about it on twt that so clearly didn't even watch it themselves

revolutionarylexi.bsky.social•97 days ago

Yeah, agreed.
I really like Frieren overall, I had a great time with the show and I'm very excited for Season 2, but I did feel disappointed during that demon arc.

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