“54% of Britons who voted leave, including 59% of voters in “red wall seats”, said in exchange for single market access they would now accept full free movement for EU and UK citizens to travel, live and work across borders.”
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Stubborn Starmer is not reading the room. Always behind the curve. Act, Starmer, act, it’s what the vast majority of voters want. You were elected to look after our best interests and those of the country. Brexit is the burning issue that will not go away just because you ignore it.
Uh-huh. Nothing has changed. If the EU had been willing to discuss each aspect of membership separately something of the sort would have been fully supported. But Brussels insisted that it was all or nothing.
They're shooting themselves in the foot. If they don't change they'll be out at the next GE. I see nothing positive from the Labour Party yet, absolutely nothing. They appear to be making it up as they go along.
If there was *full alignment* (including currency) with the EU and no special treatment, the EU might consider. A hefty and sincere apology for the pain and expense of Brexit would help too.
Yes, but not ‘as it was’. There is no ‘going back’. Full alignment is the only way forward at this point, seems to me, after the years of pain and expense the Brexit Debacle caused.
We are not going to get that in a long time, it’ll take a monumental intervention to bring it about. The EU are quite willing to open negotiations, but, & it’s a big BUT, we will not have the same influence or power we had before, added to that you can bet it won’t be a unanimous acceptance vote
I agree, which is why I was so devastated at the vote in 2016. We will never get back what we had before. It’s not a guaranteed shoe in either, we no longer meet the criteria in so many areas.
I'm sure there were many reasons many voted 'leave' in 2016 and only some were about actually leaving the EU. Some wanted an ill advised/never going to happen "Lexit", some wanted a soft Brexit. But many just wanted to give Cameron, Osborne & Tory Govt a bloody nose in a defeat - any kind of defeat.
I think it's easy to blow up "Lexit" out of proportion because we're always angriest with people that we can find a little common ground with. There was no path to Lexit with a fresh Tory government, and a lot of people who might have supported it either stayed home or were grudging Remain.
Ref was only won by 52/48%. A few voters could have swung result to remain. I think EU/ECB didn't help cause in aftermath of 2010 financial crisis. Looking heavy handed. Greece should have been able to leave Euro. Banks should have gone bust. Financial speculation outlawed, banksters sent to jail.
Oh, definitely. Being in favour of the EU on general principles is not the same as thinking it's a perfect institution which never does anything wrong.
Agree. Everything really stems from the banking crisis of 2010 though. That and the Tories trying to settle an internal party dispute and to do so they trashed the country.
For sure. And Cameron had won two referendums—electoral reform and Scottish independence—so he clearly thought he was on a roll and could sort out the old internecine Tory fight which took down Thatcher and Major (and probably several LOTOs) once and for all.
They wanted to give Westminster a kicking. They wanted more political control and less disenfranchisement. The English especially have pretty much the worse anywhere in the West.
Address those issues and UK will move back to the EU.
All reasons were about actually leaving the EU because that was the question and only a very nationalistic person would even risk that even if they also had other motivations.
Every remain voter voted for the exact same thing, every Brexit voter voted for something different, the rich disaster capitalists on the right of the Tory party were the only ones who got what they wanted, and then even they fucked it up completely by infighting.
Agree. Not sure they have f*d it up entirely. We've seen no move backwards from Labour on a hard brexit. No realaignment, no CU, no nothing, just pandering to teh city spivs and speculators and we still have the hardest of Brexits.
The number of Brexit voters who DIDN'T vote to end FoM—as ONE of a laundry list of things they wanted—was a rounding error. I'm glad they've seen the light now, and hindsight is 20/20, but it wasn't that way in 2016.
Does it mean that 54% of Leavers finally realized that ending the EU’s freedom of movement goes both ways?
I remember the smirking on Patel’s face and the clapping when she announced ending free movement of people once and for all. Video: @channel4news.bsky.social
"every Brexit voter' was psychographically targeted by Cambridge Analytica (Mercer/Bannon ect) and fed lies that would convince them Brexit was a good idea. It wasn't.
It was also IMO set against the 2010 financial crisis in which the EU/ECB was taking severe measurs on the inappropraitely named "PIIGS", especially Greece, where it was being used for disaster capitalist reasons. Giving Lexiteers a raison d'etre.
Is that the Greece that cooked their books, that failed to collect their taxes, that paid benefits to blind people driving cars? It's a pity the Lexiters didn't offer for the UK to open its wallet to pay for the damage the Greeks did instead of blaming the EU.
Hardly, as a large proportion of Tories had been harping on how bad and corrupt the EU was and how we should leave since Thatcher years. It's been a spoon-fed agenda for years.
Then what the hell did they vote leave for, exactly? 🤬🤬🤬🤬 If that doesn't persuade the govt that the media absolutely orchestrated Brexit, and that Leveson 2 is crucial, literally nothing will. 🤷♀️
Like conservatives in the US, they were willing to hurt themselves just so long as the people they hate were hurt *more*.
Unlike conservatives in the US, they’re now regretting that vote when the hurt comes. The UK doesn’t have a Dear Leader to keep them willing to be hurt.
Luckily, the closest we came was to a dear leader was BoJo, and tbh, no one really likes him. Farage would like the job, but also, no one really likes him. 🤞
And you're absolutely right, bigotry and small-minded isolationism won the day where Brexit was concerned, and will take years to put right.
The problem is a very small part of the media, specifically the right wing media control the narrative. They were the echo chamber that started the disastrous decision.
“It’s easier to convince a man by appealing to his prejudices …”
Ultimately gvt 'red lines' on this are patronising to former Leave voters.
They have moved beyond the 'have cake & eat it' approach even as gvt clings to it to avoid offending voters they see as stupid & ideological caricatures
But do they make the connection that they were lied to, sold a load of nonsense? The farmers seem to welcome the support of Tory MP’s in their bid to avoid paying towards rebuilding our country. Do they ever learn?
I’ll never understand why Theresa May made such a thing of insisting the referendum result was all about freedom of movement. Nor, come to think of it, why so many Remainers saw her as a moderate while she did that, groveled to Trump and talked of the “will of the people” and “crushing saboteurs”….
I am a European first. Brexit was a weaponised fraud pushed by criminals. They stole my dreams. UK state transphobia guarantees I have precisely zero loyalty to the UK state.
At what point does Starmer stop being frightened of an unrepresentative legacy media, and take bold decisions on single market, customs union and freedom of movement.
It would be interesting to see polling for Scotland, which in 2016 started at 62% of voters wanting to stay in the EU, but we were taken out by our larger neighbour, despite our clear wishes.
With free movement EU citizens would travel here for work and after a while return to their country. Their parents, cousins, friends may visit. They’re likely to return home to retire. They’d be well educated and trained. Asian bring whole family and retire here
In countries like Germany u have to have a job to go to and register . If u lose your job you’d have 6 months to find another else u had to return to your country. Of only we’d implanted that during Labour and Cameron years
And they (we) are still bitter about what happened and how. Any attempt to join the EU will be viewed suspiciously and with trepidation. Like taking back an abusive ex.
Whatabout them? The brexshit referendum was engineered to be decided by the English. If they truly believed in 'democracy' why didn't each country have a vote? Why was it one person one vote knowing that the vast majority of voters are in England?
Its always been like that. England is the colonial power. They occupied Wales, Scotland and Ireland just as much as elsewhere. But what I was saying is don’t fuck over Wales, Scotland and NI because of what England did. And at that its really only the English countryside. My city voted remain..
Trade unions still exert considerable influence over Labour policy, given their historical and financial ties to the party. I don’t think Keir Starmer is free of their influence yet.
Foreign students pay a higher rate for tuition fees so I thought to spike the anti immigrant sentiment, immigrant workers could pay more tax initially to shaming farage into silence?
There are arguments why foreigners should pay more tuition fees (or pay some money to use the NHS): them or their parents never contributed to the system unlike British citizens. But to make them pay more taxes outright? I don't think one can justify that.
If there was a set period for newly arrived people to pay income tax over the standard rate it would surely silence the racist sentiment about immigration in the UK?
Look at how the vile Tories and Labour moved to the right to please Farage's band and look where they ended up. It takes courage to stand up to fascists.
I suppose it’s just firefighting, nobody really cares about how many immigrants are coming here, they’re just getting the blame (engineered narrative) for poor health services, lack of affordable housing and poor schools. The real culprits are the ones blaming immigrants.
It's a perfectly viable option, subject to negotiation with EU of course. UK could agree an EEA style deal: as Farage once said, UK could be like Switzerland or Norway. Not as good as full membership, but better than Hard Brexit.
(I live in 🇨🇭 i.e. in SM & Schengen 🙂 but not EU or customs union ☹️)
I would love a Swiss-style deal, but I think it’s unlikely. The government doesn’t want to do that as it would apparently go against the will of the people to leave, and the EU probably doesn’t want us to get so many benefits without becoming full members.
I think UK will be forced to look at this as there is no other way to remove the trade barriers, and die-hard leavers are a shrinking demographic. For EU, EEA-style deal as a firewall might be the best option, as it allows trade and FOM, but without political risks of UK destabilising EU internally.
Starmer should try to negotiate it, we have nothing to lose. But he won’t, despite polls showing it’s what people want. I understand him not wanting to rejoin as we voted to leave, but we didn’t vote on how to leave, so he should get us the best deal possible.
A reminder that even the 'Swiss-style' deal is insufficient FOR SWITZERLAND. Better for the UK to give up this 2016-present forlorn hunt for a non-existent 'better deal' and outright #RejoinEU via #Article49.
Seriously I fail to understand why we (ie Labour) aren’t able to discuss the benefits of FoM. It isn’t a one way deal. I’d like mine back thank you very much.
Every day the pressure ramps up on the government to change tack much faster than they are doing, this is just the latest example but a good one as it shows 'leave' voters are changing their minds too.
I wonder what proportion of these same people have also said that uncontrolled immigration is a significant concern. My only take out from this is that the British public are whimsical but pragmatic & overall should not be responsible for making decisions of such consequence in a binary referendum.
This must be fake news. Keir Starmer told us the people have moved on from being in the SM and having FoM. And Keir Starmer wouldn't lie, as he has told us over & over again how important it is TRUTH & honesty return to British politics, or the whole system will break down.
Didn't her mum ever do her a packed lunch, didn't she ever go to a kids' birthday party? Don't posh people do that? My childhood consisted of soggy sandwiches.
Comments
He’d rather be dead.
Unless Labour see sense and dump Starmer.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/brexit-jonathan-reynolds-carmarthen-british-chambers-of-commerce-london-b2573465.html
We really cannot afford 4 more years of Starmer.
Nor can Labour.
We need a sane Tory party first.
Address those issues and UK will move back to the EU.
I remember the smirking on Patel’s face and the clapping when she announced ending free movement of people once and for all. Video: @channel4news.bsky.social
#brexit #brexitshambles #begret
Like conservatives in the US, they were willing to hurt themselves just so long as the people they hate were hurt *more*.
Unlike conservatives in the US, they’re now regretting that vote when the hurt comes. The UK doesn’t have a Dear Leader to keep them willing to be hurt.
And you're absolutely right, bigotry and small-minded isolationism won the day where Brexit was concerned, and will take years to put right.
“It’s easier to convince a man by appealing to his prejudices …”
They have moved beyond the 'have cake & eat it' approach even as gvt clings to it to avoid offending voters they see as stupid & ideological caricatures
You had it, you pissed it away, it’s gone.
We’ll all suffer (all except the liars and grifters who conned you) - thanx morons.
At last, the penny is dropping amongst Brexiteers!!!
We thought you had done some work on this? Or maybe it was @euromovescotland.bsky.social ?
The Tories want closer ties with Trump's America. It seems most Brits absolutely do not.
single market access. It is single market access.
Now they do, and they don't like it.
Also they can see it hasn't affected the number of immigrants (although it has affected the main sources of immigrants).
(I live in 🇨🇭 i.e. in SM & Schengen 🙂 but not EU or customs union ☹️)
The 'Global Britain' myth is dead. #BrexitHasFailed. End the delusion. Time to return to sober reality. #RejoinEU
https://youtu.be/tsyudJFE8DA?si=Igo5MJex7UNZ14gY
#ThereIsNoGoodBrexit #NationalFailure #TheyLiedToYou
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-12-12/eu-swiss-reach-immigration-accord-bringing-broader-deal-closer?embedded-checkout=true
Is a strange question
https://bsky.app/profile/pickardje.bsky.social/post/3ld3q7o5lfc2m