I've done quite a lot of reading on this, and also worked in Syria, Iraq and other countries of origin. These places have a very different culture to ours and it's not necessarily racist to be worried about recent arrivals having values that may threaten our social contract. It's not just murders. - ThreadSky

samwilkin.bsky.social • 8 days ago

I've done quite a lot of reading on this, and also worked in Syria, Iraq and other countries of origin. These places have a very different culture to ours and it's not necessarily racist to be worried about recent arrivals having values that may threaten our social contract. It's not just murders.

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sarahrhamburg.bsky.social•8 days ago

I work with refugees from those countries, and am the daughter of Jewish refugees who were forced to leave Europe because of exactly that same sentiment— and I can confidently say that it is in fact necessarily racist.

samwilkin.bsky.social•8 days ago

If there's anything else I should read, please do point me in the direction.

I do find it interesting that I'm getting a huge pile-on here, and generally positive and/or constructive feedback across all other platforms.

timpera.bsky.social•7 days ago

Sending you lots of love! Don't pay attention to the haters.

toomanysteves.bsky.social•8 days ago

No shit, the “maybe the racists are right?” idea plays better on other platforms?

Gosh, what could that possibly mean?

mattsteinglass.bsky.social•8 days ago

I'm not sure how you're categorizing the issue. On how racial hierarchy works to structure our understanding of society imperceptibly, Isabel Wilkerson's "Caste" is quite good. On what drives migration, Hein de Haas's "How Migration Works".

mattsteinglass.bsky.social•8 days ago

I also recommend the latest edition of the Dutch government's report on integration. Here is crime (accused, not proven) by background. It's highest among those born in the country with 2 immigrant parents...and keeps dropping over time. Crime levels are low overall. https://longreads.cbs.nl/integratie-en-samenleven-2024/criminaliteit/

mattsteinglass.bsky.social•8 days ago

The Dutch "integration" debate kicked off 25y ago with an article by Paul Scheffer in the Volkskrant. He now says the press keeps distorting him; this is from last year. He thinks integration works when a country has a deliberate story of why it let people in. https://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/mensen-zeggen-al-jaren-dat-nederland-een-verhaal-nodig-heeft-ja-begin-daar-dan-eens-aan~ba75e059/?referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

samwilkin.bsky.social•8 days ago

That's very interesting, and I think I agree with that point. Europeans have a clear narrative of why we let, say, Ukrainians in. Same with Hong Kongers to UK. Some Europeans think we should let everyone in because of our colonial history, but that's not a compelling narrative shared across society.

samwilkin.bsky.social•8 days ago

Anyway I'm going to log off for a bit and stop feeding the trolls. Would love to pick up this discussion with you over a beer if you're ever in Brussels!

samwilkin.bsky.social•8 days ago

That seems to show that someone born in NL with 2 foreign parents is about 3 times likelier to commit a crime than someone with 2 Dutch-born parents. That seems like a failure of integration to me, and a valid cause for concern (if it holds true when controlled for wealth etc.)

mattsteinglass.bsky.social•8 days ago

It is a failure of integration, except that it keeps getting better over time and crime levels in the Netherlands are so low, and continuously falling, that it is not important. Someone who pays a lot of attention to this problem rather than more serious ones is showing you somethng.

mattsteinglass.bsky.social•8 days ago

One reason the Netherlands is not as good as Canada or Australia at integration is that the Dutch are more clubby, more prejudiced and less polite than Canadians or Australians. But they seem to be doing okay. The panic over the "failure of multiculturalism" was wasted energy.

clegggg.bsky.social•8 days ago

Have you considered the possibility that you might be personally bigoted

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