A former deputy chief constable recently described her "visceral" reaction when she walked into a room and saw a Tricolour. That's the view of a moderate Irish-speaking northerner - yet many southerners think Irish unity can mean retaining the flag.
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In truth, I think many people haven't thought terribly deeply about many of these issues becuase they've seemed so far off and there are more pressing issues. But the polling suggests a pretty deep - and entirely understandable - attachment to the Tricolour.
It would be interesting to see where you examined the visceral reaction to a union jack, that many Irish people have had to experience as NI citizens over many decades.
Would you have a link to that article? Be very interesting to read both
I might have missed it first time round.
Hatred of the tricolour by unionists and the British police force predates the conflict.
They oppose what the flag represents.
It was banned in the 6 counties and removal of one flag in an office on the Falls Road was one of the sparks for the conflict
The "hardliners", on either side, won't really matter in a border poll, we know how they would vote. The vote will be decided by the middle ground and those open to persuasion. I don't think the flag will be high up their agendas, a flag that literally accomodates both communities already.
The tricolour is already a compromise! Unionism is just 15% of the island but they get 33% of the flag. Still not good enough because themmuns get 33% too.
If living longer, spending more time with your kids, making more money, an overall higher quality of life won't convince unionists that a UI is better for them I don't thank a fleg with King Billy crossing the Boyne would do it. They cannot be convinced. We just need one more vote and feck em.
If a united Ireland were to happen, then it's a whole new entity. New flag, new anthem, maybe even join the common wealth. It can't be about ROI "taking over"NI. Personally, I'd like the blue presidential flag.
Let's be honest - it appears that dup/tuv deadhead are triggered at the thought of protestants being educated on sn integrated school. Hardly the biggest surprise that some folk are so triggered by a flag. Doesn't stop them rubbing everyone's noses in it all year with union flags though
For anyone interested, this is the full recording of Judith Gillespie's interview with Prof Richard English at the Royal Irish Academy. It's exceptionally rare to hear someone on NI public life speak with such raw honesty about so many issues.
Did you take a survey? Many protestants accept the tricolour after partition and are happy to have their identity on it.
1/3 of the flag is specifically for protestants @belfastbrad.bsky.social
flags are symbolic objects. Their meaning, usually depending on their (mis) use can mean one thing to someone & a different thing, oft highly charged, to another.
to achieve authentic self-determination & end the democratic deficit here, I’ll not be hung up about an object, Irish or British.
for record, I’ve nought personally against the Tri-colour. As a loyal IRFU fan, I get its symbology & respect sentiment. I stand for Amhrán na bhFiann (bluffing my Gaeilge as I sing) but as a victim of PIRA violence, I also get flags can be misappropriated & their symbology may equate to suffering.
Yeah. I'll admit to being shocked the first time I saw Cromwell's statue outside Parliament. Meant something different to those who put it up, and most people passing hardly noticed it at all. Significance in the eye of the beholder. Though that doesn't mean the significance isn't real.
I think if we're going to build a new progressive Ireland, we have an opportunity to do something different from the boring three colour bands. What are we about? What does Ireland mean in the world? What stands out? What shocks? What's new? What would make Nepal jealous? (love their flag)
Absolutely. Indeed, that's how to win the referendum. Ireland, for good or for ill, has been inextricably connected with Britain, locally and globally, for many centuries, including the Empire, the wars, the EU adventure (hope we can get that back) and much much more. Let's do something *new*.
Does nobody in the North understand the significance of the flag?
White is the symbol of peace, between the orange and the green. What's so wrong with that?
I once explained it to an ex RUC man living here in England. He didn't have a clue.
So if you actually respect and believe in what the flag stands for, you should be prepared to give it up if it gets in the road of it.
The prize is a unified state that makes life better for everyone on it. We can make a new flag, if must.
That's the point I was trying to make. Flags and marches and murals and the like are just toys for the children. The grown-ups look to a better future.
Every time I visit England and see Union flags, it doesn’t faze me in the slightest. If I visit NI, and go through a loyalist area, the same flag has the connotation of “you’re not welcome here”.
The Tricolour was (and is) used to the same effect for Unionists visiting Republican neighborhoods
So I can understand why the Tricolour can and will be a thorny issue. But opinion polls in the 26 show that the majority may well redline the replacement of the Tricolour. More than any referendum outcome, if we can’t agree on these little things, how can we deal with structures of government..
Never ceases to amaze me that Unionists don't get that, as a bloc, they could have far more influence in a fractured Dáil than they ever have in Westminster.
My view has always been that Reunification, and making it work on a practical level, is the big picture for grown-ups.
Flags, parades and all the other emotional crap that goes along with them are just toys for kids. Who cares?
I agree. But every opinion poll and study shows that the symbolism and other ephemeral issues will be redlines (for both communities).
Tax-free allowances, trade deficits and foreign policy doesn’t elicit the same interest
Good point. Context is critical in all of these things. I suppose what's surprising about Gillespie's reaction (and as the rational part of her brain quickly asserted) was that the context was wholly benign.
Of course we understand that was the intention of it, but if you grew up as a protestant in Belfast through the 70s and 80s then it's hard to see it as a symbol of peace.
It's worth trying to see that people don't just need it explained to them...
It stopped being about religion for most people a while ago. I don't think Martin McGuinness and Billy Hutchinson were ever arguing about the latest Papal Encyclical or a statue of the Virgin Mary.
Glad you've moved on. I wish more could.
Me personally?
Well a republican group killed a member of my family when I was 7, so I'm going to guess that I just won't.
Not sure you have understood...
Flying the tricolour or just about any other Irish symbol was illegal in Belfast for much of the 70s and 80s. My grandfather was interned for 18 months without trial for having on in a drawer in his house.
I'm glad we've moved on, it was an awful period.
Only explaining why it will never feel like *my* flag. I don't overly care about flags and symbols in general but it's useful in moving forward to discuss the various feelings they can stir up in people.
Well the Union Jack was never my flag and nobody ever asked for my input or feelings about it, so you can forgive your nationalist neighbours if we really don't care all that much when unionists hyperventilate about the tricolour.
My attitude to the Tricolour changed with the 1998 Agreement's overwhelming endorsement, going from negative to respectfully positive, yet no real sense of belonging.
Brexit changed that, for, as a dual citizen, my strong European identity is through my Irishness, and the Tricolour symbolises that.
I think I can easily appreciate the attachment to the Tricolour as the national flag of their State, and many Northern nationalists, too. The concept was good, and it's also very established.
But it shouldn't be a fait accompli. And nor the anthem. Fine melody that it is, the words alienate.
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Would you have a link to that article? Be very interesting to read both
I might have missed it first time round.
They oppose what the flag represents.
It was banned in the 6 counties and removal of one flag in an office on the Falls Road was one of the sparks for the conflict
"And then I had to say to myself, Judith, wise up. This is the Republic of Ireland and that's their flag. Get over yourself"
1/3 of the flag is specifically for protestants @belfastbrad.bsky.social
to achieve authentic self-determination & end the democratic deficit here, I’ll not be hung up about an object, Irish or British.
White is the symbol of peace, between the orange and the green. What's so wrong with that?
I once explained it to an ex RUC man living here in England. He didn't have a clue.
The prize is a unified state that makes life better for everyone on it. We can make a new flag, if must.
The Tricolour was (and is) used to the same effect for Unionists visiting Republican neighborhoods
https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2023/12/09/united-ireland-southern-voters-open-to-discussion-on-flags-and-anthem/
Flags, parades and all the other emotional crap that goes along with them are just toys for kids. Who cares?
Tax-free allowances, trade deficits and foreign policy doesn’t elicit the same interest
Fat chance, I suppose.
Will they never grow out of it?
It's worth trying to see that people don't just need it explained to them...
Glad you've moved on. I wish more could.
Well a republican group killed a member of my family when I was 7, so I'm going to guess that I just won't.
Not sure you have understood...
Only explaining why it will never feel like *my* flag. I don't overly care about flags and symbols in general but it's useful in moving forward to discuss the various feelings they can stir up in people.
Brexit changed that, for, as a dual citizen, my strong European identity is through my Irishness, and the Tricolour symbolises that.
But it shouldn't be a fait accompli. And nor the anthem. Fine melody that it is, the words alienate.