A nation is not ontologically the homeland of a faith. It can’t be because nations are fundamentally amoral entities, whereas faith is a personal experience. To say that there’s some sort of psychic link between all Jewish people to a nation state is a patently insane claim - ThreadSky

kyh9.bsky.social • 4 days ago

A nation is not ontologically the homeland of a faith. It can’t be because nations are fundamentally amoral entities, whereas faith is a personal experience. To say that there’s some sort of psychic link between all Jewish people to a nation state is a patently insane claim

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turnerjoy.bsky.social•4 days ago

What kind of dippy do random collection of crap is this?

The existence of nations is always immoral, but religions never are? Or is only faith allowed as long as you keep it to yourself?

Are you for the creation of a nation of Palestine which would be definitionally immoral?

turnerjoy.bsky.social•4 days ago

If you think “connection to the land” is an insane idea; ohh boy are you in for a wild ride when you find out about many faiths and religions

kyh9.bsky.social•4 days ago

I think most religions that claim a connection to a particular plot of land are fucking stupid, but it becomes dangerous when that insane reasoning becomes the justification for policies of displacement or violence

dgoldman.bsky.social•4 days ago

That's the really absurd thing about it. So many people demand equal access to the Jewish homeland, because they practice a faith that was derived from the appropriation of Jewish culture, heritage, and tradition...

dgoldman.bsky.social•4 days ago

...but Jews, who are an indigenous people of the land, and who are not defined by religion... don't actually have a claim to the land?

kyh9.bsky.social•4 days ago

No, they don’t unless they were already living there. You don’t have claim to land you don’t personally live on yourself.

turnerjoy.bsky.social•4 days ago

What do you mean by “already living there” I assume you mean where people are living now doesn’t count.

Where is your cutoff?

kyh9.bsky.social•4 days ago

I dont really care about whether the Palestinians get their own nation as much as they need to have their human rights protected and guaranteed by A nation. It could be their own or it could be Israel, I could care less about which entity it is but their human dignity should be protected

turnerjoy.bsky.social•4 days ago

Why would you want something that is always immoral to exist and expect it to protect human rights?

Would it be fine if Jordan reunited Mandate Palestine and took over both Israel and Palestine? What if Trump just takes it over? Ottoman Empire?

kyh9.bsky.social•4 days ago

I said Amoral, . Immoral means “morally bad” and amoral means “morally indifferent”. Because nations are defined by their leadership and policy and are not inherently good or evil from their conception.

kyh9.bsky.social•4 days ago

I’m Korean but I would never claim that I have any connection to South or North Korea as “an extended family” because of course I don’t, I’m an American, this place is my homeland because it’s where I grew up

dgoldman.bsky.social•4 days ago

Children of Korean citizens are Korean citizens. Grandchildren can generally naturalize. We don't have a state for Judea. All we have is recognition of indigenous existence in Israel. You really don't get it.

dgoldman.bsky.social•4 days ago

Say the US had taken over Korea. Destroyed Korean self determination, and scattered many Koreans around the world. You'd say "well we don't have a right to self determination anymore?"

kyh9.bsky.social•4 days ago

Koreans would still have self determination because that’s the right of an individual, not of a state or an ethnicity or a nationality. The survive of the Korean nations doesn’t matter, they could disappear tomorrow and it wouldn’t matter. It’s the well being of people that matters

dgoldman.bsky.social•4 days ago

And really you would never be speaking against anyone else's indigenous rights. Just the Jews.

kyh9.bsky.social•4 days ago

There’s no such thing as indigenous rights or birthrights. Nobody is entitled to live on any particular part of land by birth or bloodline. If you live somewhere, you’re entitled to continue living there. Your home is the space you specifically occupy and reside in

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