I think your point about people seeing topping as "intrinsic to his character" raises some interesting points though, because the reason I have an aversion to some of the 'he only bottoms' takes is because it can come off as like "only the masculine aggressive man can top" which feels so regressive - ThreadSky

remylebae.bsky.social • 3 days ago

I think your point about people seeing topping as "intrinsic to his character" raises some interesting points though, because the reason I have an aversion to some of the 'he only bottoms' takes is because it can come off as like "only the masculine aggressive man can top" which feels so regressive

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riwox.bsky.social•3 days ago

this is such a interesting point because in Asian fandom spaces we talk about this from "is top/bottoming based on our internal misogyny?"question a lot! we have more built in cultural misogyny so our really strong preferences for top and bottom-ing dynamics or even in story writing are often

riwox.bsky.social•3 days ago

criticized from within too. I also ask myself if I'd be less rigid with fandom-ing if i wasn't born in south korea sometimes 🤔
Because back in the early yaoi days in Asia, what you're calling out here was the differentiation, it was indeed the masculine/feminine men trope. And to some degree,

riwox.bsky.social•3 days ago

people do still stick to that and are attracted to that really old idea of gender expression dynamic! So your criticism is still valid 😂
Because I can read fanfics in two languages it is really interesting how western fanfiction and Korean fanfiction focuses/writes about characters differently even

riwox.bsky.social•3 days ago

for the same fandom. In english writing Spock explores himself more and does express himself in his own ways, but in korean fanfics the focus is often about his struggles from within and not showing himself at all. It shows.. a big difference in what you consider liberation and what you consider

riwox.bsky.social•3 days ago

the cultural norm that exists thru the creator!
idk how i side tracked so hard there but.
I just wanted to say at least from my understanding as a millennial Korean fujo.. your description seems to be the starting point in m/m characterization in Asia and then it diversified over the last decades!

riwox.bsky.social•3 days ago

It's just that some of that stubbornness never went away and is existing thru different versions of preferences due to prolonged exposure of a common idea/tropes and lack of real life representation + tabooing of sex in general which leads to no realism of how sex actually is and more fantasizing

remylebae.bsky.social•3 days ago

so to some extent i appreciate this thread because I realize now that's not what you're getting at, but it's part of why I do tense up to this debate because, from that lens that I was coming from, it feels super homophobic to be like "this one can't possibly top because he's the more feminine one"

remylebae.bsky.social•3 days ago

which isn't what you're saying at all! But you hopefully can see why without that extra context I've come to this conclusion in the past.

I'm in the middle of this debate because I don't really write thinking he's a top or a bottom. I think to some extent it's hard for me to see Spock as picking

remylebae.bsky.social•3 days ago

one position or another because I think so much of topping and bottoming as identities is tied specifically to current queer American culture, and I think an alien wouldn't be tied up in these identities the way we currently are. Same for his sexuality; Spock's got an avoidant personality so TBH

remylebae.bsky.social•3 days ago

I don't even think he'd identify as "gay" I think he'd just choose not to think about any of that label stuff bc how could Earth labels fit a Vulcan?

What I'm saying is, this is part of my hold up with viewing him as a top/bottom, or gay/bi/straight. I don't think he can be stuck into any one box

remylebae.bsky.social•3 days ago

Anyway, that's just the space I have the most fun playing in! Not trying to argue that my way is more valid than your way. When I write, I'm not necessarily writing what's "most canon" but what most fits the story I'm trying to tell. Like again, preg fic writer here: canonically those men should not

remylebae.bsky.social•3 days ago

be fathers. They just shouldn't. but i keep sticking them in these situations because it's the most fun for me & explores tropes I am most drawn to

It really isn't that much deeper than "I think he should top here because it would hot" but I hope this gives you a little more insight into my process

campyalien.bsky.social•3 days ago

An interesting thing I was thinking about re: this part of your response was that it seems like people who make Spock top commonly MAKE him masculine & aggressive whereas the Kirk toppers tend to leave Kirk with the soft masculinity we see him actually exhibiting in canon. At least that's what I've

campyalien.bsky.social•3 days ago

noticed. Like they make Spock really possessive & jealous & even violent at times whereas they play up Kirk's femininity when he's bottoming. Cause I've noticed that same kind of weird reductive stuff too but it seems to go the other way when I see it where Kirk is the girly one so therefore Kirk

campyalien.bsky.social•3 days ago

MUST be the bottom & that makes me go 😬😬😬

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