The city-state of #Berlin is cutting spending severely to plug a €3bn hole in its budget. Untouchable: the parking permit for residents. It stays at an actually loss-making €10.20 per year. Lost. Absolutely lost. - ThreadSky

codendahl.bsky.social • 92 days ago

The city-state of #Berlin is cutting spending severely to plug a €3bn hole in its budget.

Untouchable: the parking permit for residents. It stays at an actually loss-making €10.20 per year.

Lost. Absolutely lost.

Comments

randomascii.bsky.social•92 days ago

That's terrible. Most parking permits in Vancouver, BC are $66 CDN/year which is much more but still about 10-20% of what they should really be. Hey, we have a parking shortage and a revenue shortage and there's a really simple solution to both!

Them: no

mindstalk.bsky.social•92 days ago

Good chance the $66/year is more like 2-5% of what it should be.

randomascii.bsky.social•92 days ago

That would put the price at $1,320 to $3,300 per year. That sounds like a lot but it's actually just $0.15 to $0.38 per hour.

Donald Shoup would say that we should keep raising the price until we typically have 15% availability, with the necessary price varying across the city.

mindstalk.bsky.social•92 days ago

I was simply thinking that in a Boston suburb, my apartment's parking spaces went for like US$120/month, several years ago. As for Van, I see CA$300/month for downtown garages and 100+ for neighborhood spots on Parkify.

mindstalk.bsky.social•92 days ago

If a permit doesn't guarantee you can find a spot then it should be somewhat cheaper, but probably not 66/year. And a city could limit the permits sold to the number of spaces it has, to justify a higher price.

randomascii.bsky.social•92 days ago

Yep, that sounds like a solid calculation. As you say, non-guaranteed spots should cost less than guaranteed spots, but certainly more than the street parking permits cost now.

Ironically, residents tend to be opposed to increasing the price, but then complain about a lack of parking. Hmmm...

d-le-nen.bsky.social•92 days ago

priorities are important ;-)
said our former finance min
the berliner™ drives a car, nothing else, basically

ulriche.bsky.social•92 days ago

10,20 Euro pro Jahr? ..... Vielleicht sollte man in Berlin doch noch mal Kontakt mit Boris Palmer aufnehmen 😎

testeria.bsky.social•91 days ago

Good. They are working for their residents.

codendahl.bsky.social•91 days ago

Right.

gbaldi.bsky.social•92 days ago

Freies Parken für freie Bürger😀

paulasrocks.bsky.social•91 days ago

Das ist natürlich wichtiger als gute Bildung...

codendahl.bsky.social•91 days ago

Ich denke Guido meinte das als Witz

gbaldi.bsky.social•91 days ago

Genau, war ein spontaner Witz.

paulbarter.bsky.social•81 days ago

See Stockholm: the most expensive resident street parking is SKR1100/month (€95 or so). The cheapest is SKR300 (€26).

Cheaper than nearby garage parking but only 50x the hourly charge in each area. So still a big discount compared to casual parking.
https://www.parkingreformatlas.org/parking-reform-cases-1/pricey-residential-permit-parking-in-stockholm

paulbarter.bsky.social•81 days ago

I see you know Stockholm, so you probably already know about its pricey residential street parking.

spoke32.bsky.social•91 days ago

Don't forget the A100 highway extension through the heart of the city that no one needs or wants and that will cost billions. Also untouchable.

codendahl.bsky.social•91 days ago

Neukölln Kleingärten is not quite the heart of the city for most, but yes, so get your point.

spoke32.bsky.social•91 days ago

Yeah, but the RAW Gelände? That's a 120 BPM heartbeat for sure

codendahl.bsky.social•91 days ago

sorry, yes, the next bit would be mad to build.

nindger.bsky.social•91 days ago

Okay, I had to check: my city (town, really, but anyway) charges 150€ per year.
Which seems a lot more reasonable to be perfectly honest.

Then again, all those clichés about the rest of us having to subsidize Berlin need to be reinforced every once in a while.

brooklynkid53bskys.bsky.social•92 days ago

There are ~ 3 million residents in Berlin
If 25% own a car, and you an extra 25 euros/car you get ~ 200 million euros/yr

so about 8% of the budget gap ?

a lot, but not enough ?

mikedeee.bsky.social•92 days ago

Market price for such a permit would be much more than 35 euro per year. A realistic price would probably be around 500 Euro in more densely populated areas and maybe half that in the outskirts. After all, the car requires around 10 m². Never really understood why this should be free.

brooklynkid53bskys.bsky.social•92 days ago

well, there is as you say a realistic market price

and there is a politically realistic price

phumm.bsky.social•92 days ago

We payed something like 80 Euros/month (not year) for a private parking space. And that was very cheap. Around 130 Euros/month is absolutely normal there.

kachumbali.bsky.social•92 days ago

Can barely use the subway without massive delays at any time nowadays. Àt least that’s my feeling

politicsphil.bsky.social•92 days ago

In London you can pay that much per DAY

techpriest.bsky.social•92 days ago

WTF. There are regional UK cities that charge 7-10x this a year for residents parking permits

mitchiru.bsky.social•91 days ago

The current government effectively secured its victory in 2023 by deepening the divide between car drivers and cyclists.

CDU will never shit where they eat.

clusu.bsky.social•92 days ago

The current government is an unpopular coalition made up of conservatives and those who desperately wanna be conservatives. Its no wonder they are turning back the clock on progress in the city

codendahl.bsky.social•87 days ago

I forgot to add that all cuts to the transport budget of #Berlin affect pedestrians, cyclists and public transport.

Cars are safe.

kirschly.bsky.social•87 days ago

GroKo is fun.

kachumbali.bsky.social•87 days ago

It’s a disaster. Trains missing on all lines, constant delays…

tommykim.bsky.social•87 days ago

In my six years living in Germany I notice more and more similarities with the US: the love of car centric cities and a two tier healthcare system

benbl.bsky.social•87 days ago

And if those are the policies of the sensible, non-radical parties, it's no surprise that people might think the more extreme alternatives won't actually be all that bad.

codendahl.bsky.social•92 days ago

That is less than the £15 that the London city maut costs per day, as @politicsphil.bsky.social points out.

codendahl.bsky.social•92 days ago

If there ever was a political opening (spread the pain of austerity) to end or at least reduce this most ridiculous of giveaways.

Cuts elsewhere include investment and social workers in schools, e-buses, bike lanes, green renovation of public buildings, various cultural institutions, …

tmartens.bsky.social•92 days ago

If only there would be a party that constantly talks about cutting subsidies.

fmontag.bsky.social•92 days ago

It’s not a subsidy!1!! It’s just a very far below market price. Huge difference. At least if it‘s your voters benefitting from it.

cbaccianti.bsky.social•92 days ago

How is this difference actually relevant to the discussion?

tmartens.bsky.social•92 days ago

It is sarcasm. It is not.

cbaccianti.bsky.social•92 days ago

Ops. I missed it.

turkishliberal.bsky.social•76 days ago

The FDP has no power in Berlin..

jakubjaraczewski.bsky.social•92 days ago

Annual Poznań parking abo in the city centre costs just 8x as much :)

codendahl.bsky.social•92 days ago

Well, Poznań is a modern metropolis. We are talking about #Berlin here.

katiecannon.bsky.social•92 days ago

Germany thinks money comes from a private gold mine owner that hidden in a fortress somewhere.

Meanwhile, Europe needs to Marshal Plan itself

jakubjaraczewski.bsky.social•92 days ago

Germany thinks money comes from gold that flows down the Rhine and gets picked up in Dusseldorf by people with sieves, to much chagrin of the Dutch.

katiecannon.bsky.social•92 days ago

To protect yourself from rising Fascism, all you need is a Job Guarantee that hires folks to sieve gold.

stfschaaf.bsky.social•92 days ago

10 Euro im Jahr? In Frankfurt 120 Euro. Können wir das bitte aus dem Länderfinanzausgleich rausnehmen?

kieninger.co•92 days ago

Also why not more speed cameras? One speed camera on Sonnenallee alone could make up for Neukölln's budget deficit.

mollemitkompott.bsky.social•92 days ago

I doubt it could make up for the whole deficit 😀 But I agree, Germany is ridiculously lax in control!

kieninger.co•92 days ago

Not everywhere. Where I grew up in the south around Bodensee there are at least 2 speed cameras in every village. Berlin is rather the exception.

keinfernseher.bsky.social•92 days ago

Don’t know what you mean. We do have two cameras, too in Berlin.

paolocrosetto.bsky.social•92 days ago

I am actually amazed at this rare and perfect example of something most people would say doesn't exist -- German humour.

You know perfectly well both cameras are in the Tiergarten -- and known not to work since the Wende

keinfernseher.bsky.social•92 days ago

It’s ridiculous to think Germans wouldn’t have a sense of humor. We laugh more to the inside, you know. Look at our politicians: isn’t this stand-up comedy at its best?
Btw: one of the cams is in the Tiergarten tunnel, the other in the Britzer Tunnel. Both Tunnels often closed due to maintenance 🤷🏻‍♂️

kieninger.co•92 days ago

And at least one is working!

codendahl.bsky.social•92 days ago

Ha! Fully agree. I think they bought new ones in the 2010s, and made so much money that it took 9 months or so until they had recovered the purchase price.

sofab77.bsky.social•91 days ago

"Berlin lass Dir das Auto nicht verbieten" - camera = Autoverbot

samfortune.bsky.social•92 days ago

They also cut the budget for new speed cameras iirc

kieninger.co•92 days ago

You are joking right?

pmk-de.bsky.social•92 days ago

Don't forget the loss in taxes from the Vonovia deal. They also seem to have a lack of employees to enforce taxes.
https://www.rbb24.de/wirtschaft/beitrag/2024/10/berlin-vonovia-uebernimmt-deutsche-wohnen-share-deal-steuerschlupfloch.html

vifi.bsky.social•92 days ago

The City of Heidelberg tried to raise the permits to >200€/y (still ok) but got into some legal troubles and had to go back to 36€.

daniel12345.bsky.social•92 days ago

120€

codendahl.bsky.social•92 days ago

Legal trouble… Nothing more powerful in Germany than an Oberverwaltungsgericht.

sofab77.bsky.social•91 days ago

Yes there is!

"Nicht beanstandet hat das Bundesverwaltungsgericht indes die Höhe der "Regelgebühr" in Höhe von 360 €."

https://www.bverwg.de/pm/2023/47#:~:text=Dezember%202021%2C%20auf%20deren%20Grundlage,70%20m%20auf%20480%20%E2%82%AC.

codendahl.bsky.social•91 days ago

Danke!

vifi.bsky.social•91 days ago

Also war es nur die Struktur des Tarifs, nicht die Höhe…

sharedground.bsky.social•92 days ago

Classic humans.

quicknick.bsky.social•91 days ago

Another collateral damage: almost all school trips have been cancelled!! 😡 WTF!
Rationale being that the senate has to pay for the low-income kids‘ contribution that could otherwise not come along, and they are scrapping that.

watwa.re•80 days ago

I think it be socially and strategically unwise to make it expensive by some aka a non progressive hike

euantaylor.bsky.social•87 days ago

In comparison, Frankfurt is at 120 euros.

tqmurdock.bsky.social•92 days ago

Oof

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