By the "Spartan Trap", I mean "having to commit escalating levels of state capacity to maintain an increasingly expansive and unstable security state that starts to eat away at essential functions of government and destroys the ability to resist or react to external threats." - ThreadSky

seed-corn-thoughts.bsky.social • 14 days ago

By the "Spartan Trap", I mean "having to commit escalating levels of state capacity to maintain an increasingly expansive and unstable security state that starts to eat away at essential functions of government and destroys the ability to resist or react to external threats."

Reposted from KANADI-Class NHP

This comes back to a fundamental axiom, which is that authoritarians are paradoxically *more* dependent on public appeasement than democracies. When you can't Vote the Bums Out, you either have to give them bread and circuses or fall into the Spartan Trap.

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seed-corn-thoughts.bsky.social•14 days ago

It is popular to talk about how the Spartans were bad at war, but there are rational reasons why. It was because they had to devote the vast majority of their military power to controlling their vast slave underclass, who made up a supermajority of the actual population at their end.

whiskeynachos.bsky.social•14 days ago

Everyone tells the story of the Spartans telling Phillip of Macedonia "If," they leave out that he then proceeded to kick their asses and inflict the "then" statement of his choice.

seed-corn-thoughts.bsky.social•14 days ago

They could not prosecute offensive wars effectively because that would sacrifice enough troops that there would be near-instant helot revolts that would force them back.

seed-corn-thoughts.bsky.social•14 days ago

These sorts of things *are* important, because the contours of power and its usage have remained remarkably unchanged over the centuries. Times change, customs change, technology changes, people remain the same.

bradiscranky.bsky.social•14 days ago

if memory serves they effectively had two different military groups. the professional army that thousands of years later people still pretend was only the front line warriors and not the 5 or more people per Spartan there in support (including combat roles), and then basically press gangs in state

seed-corn-thoughts.bsky.social•14 days ago

Yes, and that former group would more accurately be labeled "Helot revolt suppressors who also fought sometimes".
The conscripted/impressed forces were a first line of defense of poor quality.

bradiscranky.bsky.social•14 days ago

they were there to strap on the armor then be human shields to make sure it didn't get mussed up.
the thing that gets me, truly, is their military legend is based on being slaughtered and being lucky that plague stayed on one side of the walls

ftmshepard.bsky.social•14 days ago

Athens was continually inhabited, if very diminished, throughout ottoman occupation. Sparta was not. Imo this is more telling than anything

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