i think i'm in the last cultural generation where we had to vigilantly, proactively, & physically (seriously, like with violence) push neo-nazis out of cultural spaces like basement shows, art collectives, raves. the lack of physical 3rd spaces has made dissemination of hate rhetoric so pervasive
this is coming from someone who could have easily become that, it is a question of confidence
If young men are confident enough to not stay in "friend" groups with toxic and hateful views because they know their own worth then the number will go down
We could probably use the perceived "male loneliness epidemic" like tell them saying trans rights gets you bitches /I am using a silly tone but the underlying message is something that I think could work
Talk to them and their friends. Show empathy not for their views, but for them. If they express their views, gently but adamantly dismiss them
Persist yet don't be surprised if it doesn't seem to work. You're not there to argue with them, you're there to whittle away at their views& make them doubt
It is hard. It requires patience. It requires listening to some absolute bullshit. It requires the ability to come across as an authority. It requires building pathos with them.
It's not for everyone. But I do think everyone should give it a try.
They're still trying to understand the world.
I do think this is worth trying - especially with the local community. I've been reading how male loneliness is an epidemic...and the right most likely took advantage of that. When your life becomes an echochamber and you don't let outsiders in, it gets hard to escape.
Exactly! And in many cultures teenage boys don't get taught how to socialise because the cultural assumption is often still that after you graduate, you'll be given your social group at work.
Add the lockdowns, and you have kids who have just not been given the tools to develop fully.
Definitely - it's an unfortunate situation. Like the youngest voters had to spend their high school during the pandemic and the US doesn't teach how to navigate the Internet critically. They had to learn on their own. Like throwing eggs into a hole.
They need far better male role models, monitored access to what they're accessing on the internet as children. Most of all, far better mental health care for men so that they don't fall into these dark groups to find meaning under the stress they face in adult life.
Honestly I feel like it's up to men to generally be way more active in showing them what a good person is, and thoroughly dispelling/dismantling the narrative of toxic masculinity.
In terms of specifics tho, I don't really know unfortunately
My answer to this and the OG post would be acceptance. I see most toxic masc. content tells people what to do/how to be, and tries to erase your empathy. I love being among left and LGBTQI+ people because I usually feel way more accepted and can just be myself. This enables me to be more empathetic.
i think this goes into the argument of “it benefits no one to be a good person” while like, it does. it benefits everyone. having good politics not only makes you happier but it makes the people around you happier as well
"Making people around you happier" is beneficial but like how big does "around you" have to be to still get that benefit and who needs to count as "people".
People on the right live perfect happy lives by reducing how far "around them" extends and what "people" count as people and i dont know how we convince them its worth it to expand their definitions of "around them" and "people"
People on the right can experience genuine happiness, growth, and love all without leaving right wing ideology. They aren't always happy but neither are people on the Left. Kids spewing hate online obviously aren't happy but that's a very narrow lens to view young men on the right through.
From the POV of raising a toddler who is a cis boy (for now) I am adamant about teaching boundaries. Especially when it comes to his interactions with girls. For ex: "she said she didn't want a hug. So that means no hug."
You'd be surprised (probably not) how many parents are like to their daughter "don't hurt his feelings, give him a hug." I step in real quick and say, "no, it's her body she said she doesn't want to, so she doesn't have to."
from what i’m gathering, i think they just need better men as role models in their community and the things they are interested in. there are too many andrew tates and other right wingers, there isn’t enough hasans
Part of this discussion needs to include why we have people like Taint rising up. They crave the attention. They're insecure and build these platforms to get the attention they themselves lack. It literally creates an echo chamber of loneliness.
I believe that it is out frontier as creators of hyper violent form of entertainment.
Shoot shoot
We can continue to create a corporate propaganda.
Bang Bang
But also can create a very powerful and humanizing agitation. Using all that colossal emotional energy videogames have. To present the New Way
There's also this thing where people are either scared to be left leaning or right leaning in online spaces because they fear alienating their audience or whatever. Like, Right leaning people are way more comfortable in showing that side of them than a good majority of influencers, streamers, etc.
As long as toxicity and performative cruelty prove to be extremely profitable, it's going to be incredibly difficult to convince young men that being a decent and compassionate person won't make them rich, but it will make them better people. The root of the cause is Capitalism.
The issue is the Andrew Tates attack the Hasans non-stop. If you don’t lower yourself to their level and fight fire with fire, you’re seen as weak and wrong.
I don’t think it’s a matter of message or delivery. I think it’s experience. The fuck they struggling for? Love? Money? What’s it?
I posted about this yesterday, it's easy to be popular by just spreading hate, hate takes so much leds energy than kindness, you can just sit in your basement and hate everyone.
So crushing algorithms that favour hate and sow discord between groups seems like a good first step. Rewarding kindness and solidarity without completely silencing opposing voices.
It’s part of a greater mental health crisis tbh. Men are told that their role is to be a provider and father, but when no one can get a job or afford a home, that “one job” slips away. Then they go search for meaning or ways to make money elsewhere: grind influencers and RW media. :(
Men need alternatives, IMO - they need resources and a culture shift to talking about their mental health and getting help. They need to see that they can be anything they want to be. Feminism has given that to women, but I think men still feel trapped by patriarchal gender roles.
Speaking from personal experience here: Men really need to get more educated on how sinister the patriarchy is and how badly it impacts *everybody*. The resources are out there but there's no real push for men to seek them out is the thing.
I get the feeling that RW influencers feel “safer” in that regard. The same way people gravitate toward authoritarianism - it makes them feel safe. Learning that there’s a shadowy cultural force that they have to work to unpack is probs much less appealing/scarier lol!!
Humans just want to feel safe and understood!!!!! And I deeply empathize with men that they don’t feel that way!!! But there are healthy ways to FIND it that don’t involve having to subjugate/dominate other people! You are valuable just as you are!!!
I genuinely believe men, and all people, are good. But when people feel trapped and lied to, they feel lost and angry and can become destructive. I genuinely believe it needs to be treated like a public health crisis. Mental health IS public health.
The US has taught its population since day 1 that being selfish is the way to be, to be independent and think of just yourself. Why the surprise at how this is turning out?
Other countries are taught about the greater good, the US just calls this communism.
As a parent to 2 boys- effing get involved. Parents need to step tf up- who are your kids friends? What kinds of things do they love to do? What are they talking about while playing fortnite? What are they watching on youtube? What are they talking about with their brain rot youtube slang?
My kids threw down beta and alpha casually in convo- do any parents know where that trash came from? Are you gonna put down some boundaries on your kids language and content? If you hear sexist trash come out of your kids mouth, are you gonna say something?
My kids said some dumb crap about the girls in gym class. So I asked if they would ever say that crap about me- a woman? A woman who used to be a 6th grade or 7th grade girl in gym class. "Oh no mom, you aren't like them!" EXCUSE ME?
Sorry, childs, I was also once an 11yo/12yo/13yo american girl.
You don't start "getting involved" when your kids are in middle school. This should have started the day your kid was born. The conditioning of kids in the states starts before they are even born- what bias are you carrying? What are you allowing others to say to your kids?
A family member was once very concerned and vocal about me allowing my kids to wander the entire kids section to find their clothes- they picked kitten jumpers and dry fit shirts and sequin tshirts of pokemon and pink- good lord, they were wearing pink.
Comments
If young men are confident enough to not stay in "friend" groups with toxic and hateful views because they know their own worth then the number will go down
Also, make far right seem as uncool as possible
Persist yet don't be surprised if it doesn't seem to work. You're not there to argue with them, you're there to whittle away at their views& make them doubt
It's not for everyone. But I do think everyone should give it a try.
They're still trying to understand the world.
Add the lockdowns, and you have kids who have just not been given the tools to develop fully.
In terms of specifics tho, I don't really know unfortunately
Shoot shoot
We can continue to create a corporate propaganda.
Bang Bang
But also can create a very powerful and humanizing agitation. Using all that colossal emotional energy videogames have. To present the New Way
I don’t think it’s a matter of message or delivery. I think it’s experience. The fuck they struggling for? Love? Money? What’s it?
https://www.fastcompany.com/91135719/mrbeast-charles-koch-youtube
Other countries are taught about the greater good, the US just calls this communism.
I don't know what the solution is, but I feel like social media platforms (and probably Youtube especially) are encouraging this stuff.
The other answer is of course *better role models*
I’ve also spent like my spare time of work licensing out my music to video game companies.
https://m.soundcloud.com/quigrayg
I’m your favorite rappers favorite producer.
Sorry, childs, I was also once an 11yo/12yo/13yo american girl.
So...
Pay.
TF.
Attention.
You don't start "getting involved" when your kids are in middle school. This should have started the day your kid was born. The conditioning of kids in the states starts before they are even born- what bias are you carrying? What are you allowing others to say to your kids?
That is cultural sexism. End it in your home.