Folks … I dislike Trump, the pathological liar and criminal more than I can politely articulate. But … I looked at the photo put out by Sen. Van Hollen yesterday. I have asked him what his observations were of Mr. Garcia’s left hand. I am withholding judgment. - ThreadSky

savedemocracynow.bsky.social • 8 days ago

Folks … I dislike Trump, the pathological liar and criminal more than I can politely articulate.

But … I looked at the photo put out by Sen. Van Hollen yesterday. I have asked him what his observations were of Mr. Garcia’s left hand. I am withholding judgment.

Comments

h2sdrummer.bsky.social•8 days ago

All reporting by relative r law enforcement agencies is that those symbols are not something associated with MS13. And even if it’s obvious the added text is to explain, Trump literally said he had “ms13” tattooed on his knuckles.

savedemocracynow.bsky.social•8 days ago

To your point, it doesn’t matter what his tattoos are, he deserves due process.

To my point, BlueSky is abuzz with allegations that Trump is holding up a fabricated image. We don’t know if that is fact.

Given that his office put out the image on the right, Sen. Van Hollen can clarify what he saw.

savedemocracynow.bsky.social•8 days ago

It is possible that ‘M S 1 3’ was added to the image.

This is why I offered no opinion.

But I do think Sen. Van Hollen should tell us what he saw.

h2sdrummer.bsky.social•8 days ago

So whether the text is added or not, there’s nothing to indicate the tats are evidence of anything. And then the obvious, who cares?

h2sdrummer.bsky.social•8 days ago

That’s clearly added, as is the text under the symbols. That’s not really in question, simply because the WH won’t admit it. What’s more important is that the actual symbols in the presented pic aren’t “MS-13” by all accounts.

errorbar.bsky.social•8 days ago

"Possible"? Are you kidding? The letters and numbers in that photo are clearly, unmistakably, digital. They're not even close to looking like tattoos on a hand. There's no point in this coyness. Your bio says you do forensic work??

h2sdrummer.bsky.social•8 days ago

Don’t feel badly, nothing in the legit side of forensics, DNA, chemical analysis, etc… would establish someone as an expert in digital photo forensics.

savedemocracynow.bsky.social•8 days ago

Really… I think the Forensic Imaging community would like a word.

https://www.swgde.org/documents/published-by-committee/imaging/

h2sdrummer.bsky.social•8 days ago

Perhaps I should have been clearer, I meant the legit side of non digital forensics, not that digital forensics wasn’t legit. My understanding is it’s potentially the most legit, although forensic accounting is very serious.

h2sdrummer.bsky.social•8 days ago

About me supporting digital forensics as legit or my claim that it’s not the same field as DNA forensics? I assume you know what forensics are less than established science, handwriting analysis being the most egregious IMO.

errorbar.bsky.social•8 days ago

This isn't some ambiguous judgment call like checking the kerning on GW Bush's National Guard documents. That is straight-up digital type, without the slightest effort to make it look like part of a physical object.

savedemocracynow.bsky.social•8 days ago

You might be right Eli. That is why I said I withheld judgment.

I do believe that the Sen. can establish whether Trump is lying.

errorbar.bsky.social•8 days ago

Again, I do not understand the point of being coy about this. You weighed in on a photo that most people think is fake - to say that it might not be fake, that a forensics expert thinks it might be real. "Withholding judgment" would be if you hadn't made the post.

savedemocracynow.bsky.social•8 days ago

Yup … your bio doesn’t.

errorbar.bsky.social•8 days ago

Look, I'm not trying to get in a pissing match about credentials. I have no relevant experience except that I'm extremely familiar with basic amateur Photoshop stuff, and if I had made this, very hastily, it would look exactly like this.

h2sdrummer.bsky.social•8 days ago

100%. No attempt to blur to match the focus of the photo or make it look like a tat. It’s essentially the type of labels my 6th grade science students use to annotate images, etc… although there’s would have more flair.

errorbar.bsky.social•8 days ago

I could imagine someone who's never seen an altered photo feeling unsure about this; I was just surprised to see that you would, *because* you have relevant experience.

phrozen.com•8 days ago

Oh yeah wow that photo is crystal clear grant

kkdithereens.bsky.social•8 days ago

I wanted to know what ms13 tattoos looked like too and, while this is just a reddit, they seem pretty explicit and not this Secret Code variety like neo-nazis do.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1k31ntm/some_actual_ms13_tattoos_in_contrast_to_kilmar/

savedemocracynow.bsky.social•8 days ago

Agreed.

johncc.bsky.social•8 days ago

The finger tattoos were "annotated" by right wing trolls online. Trump presents the photoshopped annotation ("MS13") as the tattoos themselves.

sfheath.bsky.social•8 days ago

Oh, the trolls were trying to say the tattoos were ciphers for alphanumeric characters? WOW that’s far-fetched

oeqqabo.bsky.social•8 days ago

He has shitty finger tattoos like tons of people. Just because they put Ms13 on the document doesn't make it a legitimate piece of evidence that they indicate ms13. And even if it were IT DOESN'T MATTER! They can prove it in court then. What is there to "withhold judgement" about?

savedemocracynow.bsky.social•8 days ago

Respectful question. Thank you.

I fully agree that it doesn’t matter what his tattoo are. He deserves due process.

I was merely commenting on BlueSky to statements that Trump fabricated the image.

We enjoy free, open, and respectful discourse here. I hope it continues.

jluvs2luv.bsky.social•8 days ago

Hi Grant. You will be arrested today and sent to prison in North Korea for being a member of the notorious red shirt gang. No do process, no day in court. Sorry. Personally, I will withhold judgemental while you're being tortured.

pmsbiker.bsky.social•8 days ago

Doesn’t matter if the dude is a serial killer-he gets due process.

savedemocracynow.bsky.social•8 days ago

I agree 100%!

finished99.bsky.social•8 days ago

You are assuming the Adminstration's interpretation of the tattoos on his fingers are truthful. Do you have a source that confirms that the symbols actually represent MS13?

savedemocracynow.bsky.social•8 days ago

Respectfully, I was merely commenting on the overwhelming number of posts that stated that M S 1 3 was added to the image of his hand, and to others who said the image was not of Mr. Garcia’s hand.

Sen. Van Hollen met with Mr. Garcia. I will absolutely accept his observation of that question.

finished99.bsky.social•8 days ago

Yeah I saw that confusion. But their underlying interpretation of his tattoo is a stretch also. Saw on Reddit that someone suggested the symbols on his fingers could stand for Weed, Wasted, Jesus, Death..ie. WWJD (What Would Jesus Do?). It's just as plausible as the Chicago Bulls cap.

savedemocracynow.bsky.social•8 days ago

Earlier today, I posted a question to Sen. Van Hollen, asking if he could verify Trump’s claim. I did so because there are images of some kind of tattoo on Mr. Garcia’s hand. I should have researched more thoroughly. The image below clearly establishes that Trump’s image is fabricated. Mea Culpa.

savedemocracynow.bsky.social•8 days ago

This is a Mea Culpa to my earlier post …. the image below confirms no MS-13 tattoo on Kilmar Abrego Garcia left hand.

Trump’s image is fabricated.

I could delete my earlier post, but I think this should be left to draw attention to the real image & to Trump’s lie. Let me know if you disagree.

livebyreason.bsky.social•7 days ago

It's likely a photoshop fake, but, we must also consider the possibility that Bukele's guards could force any damn tattoo on him that they want, to try to create fake "evidence".

Strap him to a chair, knock him out with drugs, and have someone put a tattoo on him. He has zero bodily autonomy now.

Comments

Posting Rules

Reply