My @perfnow.bsky.social talk is out from behind the paywall: youtu.be/0XwWVjQOmyg?... It's an attempt to discuss *why* it's important that we get frontend culture refocused on users, rather than "DX" snake oil. - ThreadSky

infrequently.org • 51 days ago

My @perfnow.bsky.social talk is out from behind the paywall:

https://youtu.be/0XwWVjQOmyg?si=nLVV8184i0U58ABG

It's an attempt to discuss *why* it's important that we get frontend culture refocused on users, rather than "DX" snake oil.

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joe.trusktr.io•33 days ago

What would be your ideal "framework" for you to make web apps with?

I'm imagining one that is buildless first, add a compiler later if needed (for perf or SSR), built on Declarative Custom Elements (DCEs) and HTML Modules (basically SFCs for Custom Elements, currently in talks in the WCCG).

joe.trusktr.io•33 days ago

With DCEs would could write entire compentized apps with vanilla code: DCEs would include declarative-reactive templating, depending on specs like TC39 Signals.

infrequently.org•32 days ago

Honestly, this is a lot of new, and most of the old isn't even being used well yet. For nearly every sort of high-traffic experience, I'd suggest currently shipped tech (mostly HTML, a bit of progressive enhancement, and some Declarative Shadow DOM + a Service Worker). Reactivity is oversold.

infrequently.org•32 days ago

I also want declarative CE's, FWIW. We put several variants on the drawing board in '10 and '11. Have been delayed since then by Apple's unwillingness to move...well...anything...in the CE world after the initial work. Long overdue.

alexsuzuki.com•50 days ago

Really enjoyed this talk, and completely agree. I‘ve been on the receiving end of WebKit‘s „quality issues“ for the last couple of years and it‘s hard not suspect some kind of malicuous behavior (deliberate underfunding?). Considering donating to the OWA. Is MSFT a contributor?

infrequently.org•51 days ago

I wrote this in the run-up for writing the talk:

https://infrequently.org/2024/10/platforms-are-competitions/

And this in response to some sideline discussions afterward:

https://infrequently.org/2024/11/if-not-react-then-what/

vcarl.com•51 days ago

I do gotta say tho, I'm shocked to see you suggest Cordova as an alternative while describing RN as "a good way to make a slow app that requires constant hand-tuning". It's been my understanding as well that PWAs aren't super viable native alternatives due to platform restrictions (mostly on iOS)

vcarl.com•51 days ago

I've been deep in React for many years so you may see me as a hater here, and I do see a lot of valid criticism in how it's been used, but I tend to believe that that's more of an artifact of the kind of incentives companies place on their engineers vs anything inherent to React

infrequently.org•51 days ago

Performance (like all quality) is indeed cultural. You can succeed with the most complex tools, and fail with the most elegant. But the React community and discourse is lousy with misdirection and outright fabulism. Best to just leave it.

As for incentives...

https://infrequently.org/2022/05/performance-management-maturity/

infrequently.org•51 days ago

On Cordova, it's honestly silly that people are shocked by the suggestion. Yes, we are trying to break open PWAs on iOS (join @open-web-advocacy.org to help), but until then, RN's appeal is shockingly shallow. See, e.g., this very same slow-ass RNW site.

infrequently.org•51 days ago

Not for nothing, but capitulating to the App Store agenda with *any* of these tools is a bad strategy of you want the web to succeed. I get why folks do it, but most of the RN experiences lead to *terrible* web apps (because the economics of bytes are different between platforms).

tobiu.bsky.social•48 days ago

Hi @infrequently.org! I totally agree with "the lost decade" statement. I think the ExtJS framework had good concepts in 2012, but after Sencha went down, what followed with Angular & React was a nightmare.

Did you have a chance to look into the neo.mjs project? Your input would mean a lot to me.

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