I’d go even further (and last book did), claiming that German Holocaust memory has never been about “Holocaust guilt” (and claiming it ever was that was actually just an Anglo observation). The whole point of Holocaust memory was to rearticulate German identity. It began as a left-wing process, but - ThreadSky

ilotem.bsky.social • 3 days ago

I’d go even further (and last book did), claiming that German Holocaust memory has never been about “Holocaust guilt” (and claiming it ever was that was actually just an Anglo observation). The whole point of Holocaust memory was to rearticulate German identity. It began as a left-wing process, but

Reposted from Elia Ayoub

If you stop thinking that Germany's response to anything Israel is about Holocaust guilt and instead about rewriting German history, you'd understand German politics better. 🧵

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antikalypse.bsky.social•3 days ago

Incidentally, this is exactly what the early anti-Germans warned against with their historical-political interventions, even if some of their representatives no longer want to hear about it today.

untenlinks.bsky.social•2 days ago

I read the German version of it titled "Absolution, eine Geschichte der Deutschen Staatsräson" - and I fully reccomend Marwecki's work:

untenlinks.bsky.social•2 days ago

Oh noooo, forgot alt text, here you go:

Cover of Marwecki's 2020 book "Germany and Israel - White Washing and State Building"

ilotem.bsky.social•3 days ago

Then became a source of nationalist smugness in the 2000s. I think a mistake on the left (and with international observers) was to “claim victory” in the 2000s rather than to understand this was an ongoing process. I’d also add that another kind of pretending made it worse:

ilotem.bsky.social•3 days ago

that German “memory” had
anything to do with victims (and antisemitism) rather than remaining a very German debate that really only concerned what it meant to “be German”. That was another source of both smugness and an inability to address crises as they developed.

peterandree.bsky.social•2 days ago

I feel very guilty about what my people did.
I'm also very happy to see that we are trying to face the guilt over the things we as a people did. I wish that could be said of many other nations. The world would be a better place for it.
It is a given that not everyone thinks like that.

mpoessel.de•3 days ago

I have no doubt that what you are describing is an important part of what is happening, and in particular of the „imported antisemitism“ claims. But at the same time, I‘m wondering about the place in the overall account of those individuals for which understanding the various aspects of the 1/

ilotem.bsky.social•3 days ago

I never claimed it was cynical or self serving (and for this I can say: this isn’t the best medium to discuss that, hence the book). Just that it was an internal German debate that did not involve Jews, but focused on transforming (West) German post war identity.

ilotem.bsky.social•3 days ago

That’s where I also find reducing anything to “guilt” extremely problematic, because we’re not talking about Jaspers’ Schuldfrage here, but of a psychologising mechanism that just… wasn’t a thing.

mpoessel.de•3 days ago

„Cynical and self-serving“ was my characterisation of those who use the memory of the holocaust for their own, non-holocaust-related political ends. And „understanding and trying to draw conclusions a decent person would draw“ is what I used deliberately instead of talking about „guilt“.

mpoessel.de•3 days ago

holocaust was not cynical/self-serving lip service. From the researchers who did historical work on the subject (and built the current picture of how things happened) to those who on smaller scales explored their local histories in relation to the holocaust, right to the much greater number of 2/

mpoessel.de•3 days ago

those who honestly tried to gain from the available materials an understanding of what happened, and what conclusions decent human beings ought to draw from that. In that last context, Israel *is* a place where many holocaust survivors went; the motivation of wanting to buld a place where 3/

mpoessel.de•3 days ago

they and their descendants would be able to take responsibility for their own safety is eminently understandable given the experience of having seen all those state institutions that under normal circumstances provide for a reasonable amount of safety for large swathes of society having turned 4/

rheinze.bsky.social•3 days ago

🤝

ilotem.bsky.social•3 days ago

Haha. Great minds.

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