it's not just 'ok so spend more'; it's attacking the decades-old assumption underpinning UK defence policy, that we'd never go into anything other than a (quite small/local) conflict without the US so we'd be interoperable with them. There were core capacities we'd leave to them. - ThreadSky

gabyhinsliff.bsky.social • 18 days ago

it's not just 'ok so spend more'; it's attacking the decades-old assumption underpinning UK defence policy, that we'd never go into anything other than a (quite small/local) conflict without the US so we'd be interoperable with them. There were core capacities we'd leave to them.

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gabyhinsliff.bsky.social•18 days ago

Brits are so used to hating PMs dragging us into American wars, not sure we've grasped how much we might also hate American retreat, & not just in Ukraine. Think about eg the chaotic 2021 retreat from Kabul (when we had to leave because US did) for a rough idea of what this new world might look like

nornirnlib.bsky.social•18 days ago

Agreed, so many of my friends on the left have raged (sometimes rightly) against US 'hegemony' and wished for a world without it.

Be careful what you wish for is something I've said to them before.

You don't know what you've got till it's gone.

splodgedness.bsky.social•18 days ago

Just buy all the shit from China. Fuck the US economy. Won’t be long before the tune changes in the US

chris198485.bsky.social•18 days ago

Its one of the few things the new US right are doing that I can sympathise with......why the hell should they pay for Europes security?

barryd.bsky.social•18 days ago

For obvious reasons.

chris198485.bsky.social•18 days ago

What is the reason Europe can't pay for itself?

splodgedness.bsky.social•18 days ago

Because their economy is intrinsically dependent on a stable Europe. Europeans have disposable cash and we buy shit! There’s a lot of people on this planet who have no need for Coca Cola, Levi’s or Teslas

chris198485.bsky.social•18 days ago

But again, for average Joe in the US does that carry weight, they might read that as.....pay for our defence or we will stop buying your shit.

splodgedness.bsky.social•17 days ago

If Europe stops buying it’s bad for US jobs! EU is diversifying as we speak!

gabyhinsliff.bsky.social•18 days ago

the post-WW2 answer was because ultimately they're paying for their own; it's how they keep Europe in US orbit not that of hostile superpowers. But if you're Trump & all you care about is freeing up as much £ as possible for massive tax cuts then obv that makes no sense.

korgill.bsky.social•18 days ago

Clearly. It was never about European security but about joint US-Europe security and but implications the defence of the democratic west. ‘If Europe goes communist, the US will be at greater risk.’ Trumpeters not worried about Europe going fascist. I wonder why.

chris198485.bsky.social•18 days ago

But you can see how an American citizen looking at all the poverty there might think money would be better spent at home.

alpinemigrant.bsky.social•18 days ago

That’s predicated on the idea that the US doesn’t massively benefit from a secure and reasonably compliant Europe which is quite a take.

Plus almost all US states are richer than anywhere in Britain outside London.

gabyhinsliff.bsky.social•18 days ago

Yes I do see that and I also think it’s reasonable for the US to argue that 80 odd years on Europe should be shouldering more of the burden. But a conversation btwn allies doesn’t start with pulling the rug in the middle of a war

korgill.bsky.social•18 days ago

Trump doesn’t care about poverty, but is certainly prepared to sacrifice alliances to pretend to voters that he does. On defence, the US position has nothing to do with defence spending in Luxembourg or wherever. Notice how the 3% demand has become 5%. ‘I’ll make them an offer they can’t accept.’

sjbof.uk•18 days ago

If we weren't prepared to provide the devastating superiority in aircraft and munitions for Ukraine themselves to throw back the Russians it's insane to be talking about sending our troops to be sniped at on the edge of Donbas.

soderbrod.nafofellas.com•18 days ago

If the US aren't on for helping Ukraine (or NATO for that matter) Ukraine must dismiss any idea of them getting access to mining Ukraine for minerals. Are they even an ally? More interested in schmoozing Putin.

splodgedness.bsky.social•18 days ago

The next 9-11 is only around the corner! Hope the US won’t be looking for allies when they want to legitimise the next attack on a 3rd World Country

splodgedness.bsky.social•18 days ago

Tell you what needs to happen, not one single rouble through London banks. Sanction the Russian fuckers until they return to bartering and hack the shit out of anything with a plug socket. If we will have to pay, then no special exceptions for the suits in London!

gabyhinsliff.bsky.social•18 days ago

Update: looks like the language in the speech as delivered is softer than the draft briefed in advance https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/12/us-no-longer-primarily-focused-on-europes-security-says-pete-hegseth

ziggysden.bsky.social•17 days ago

The fact remains that the largest NATO member no longer thinks an attack on one is necessarily an attack on all & felt sufficiently confident about that to write it down & put it out into the world. We’re in a different reality from this point on, I hope our leaders across Europe realise that.

smilo998.bsky.social•18 days ago

It is interested in US arms sales and whatever it can plunder from Ukraine and Greenland though......

rufford.bsky.social•17 days ago

Their 1950 onwards war record doesn’t bear close examination - Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Kuwait, Iraq - retreat, ignominy, not overly successful when un-allied. Rhetoric & history suggests they talk the talk, & fail at walking the walk. Ukraine is appeasement not a peace settlement.

sloanefragment.bsky.social•18 days ago

i don’t want this government doing anything trump wants.

rogerday.bsky.social•18 days ago

I think that's something we've got to face sooner or later

mikercameron.bsky.social•18 days ago

Looks like we’re going to have to rely on the French for a nuclear umbrella given that we clearly can’t expect the US to allow us to use Trident when we might need to.

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