This nails down well my unease with (what my academic friends tell me is) the ubiquity of AI cheating in schools. It's not just that lots of students don't have a problem cheating, but that they've apparently bought into a very sad, anemic idea of what education is for. thewalrus.ca/i-used-to-te... - ThreadSky

normative.bsky.social • 18 days ago

This nails down well my unease with (what my academic friends tell me is) the ubiquity of AI cheating in schools. It's not just that lots of students don't have a problem cheating, but that they've apparently bought into a very sad, anemic idea of what education is for. https://thewalrus.ca/i-used-to-teach-students-now-i-catch-chatgpt-cheats?fbclid=IwY2xjawI4IHRleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHUbbOdYmW246-0eu2sLO7wLlAB-Kap3hKcMc6CC6il8Bx8CUOm7Q0xWpug_aem_rC-lzy3zuQ7VFAb3Ayz66Q

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dfeig42.bsky.social•18 days ago

I don't think people really grasp how much has to change in an era with AI if we want to retain any shred of humanity. School must be completely re-imagined: yes, all the work must be done in class. It must be done without internet access. Oral exams will have to make a comeback. At the very least.

dfeig42.bsky.social•18 days ago

Classes could be weeks-long intensive seminars, 8 hours a day, rather than a semester. Professors could record socratic seminars and grade those. I teach middle school and have transitioned to no writing outside of class-all reading and annotating by hand. It does work, at least for preteens.

bergmayer.net•18 days ago

the whole thing is depressing because a common thing to say, is that AI is great if you’re already an expert and can catch mistakes. but I am worried about where the next generation of experts will come from

hilarywollis.bsky.social•18 days ago

Proud to say I have 2 post secondary kids (one grad) who do their own work.

I hope their professors can tell that they are making a genuine, old-fashioned effort to improve their research, thinking and writing skills.

saultobias.bsky.social•18 days ago

My campus loudly and proudly trumpets its on-campus ChatGPT tool on every student and faculty portal. This was rolled out by campus IT with by-in from admin and little faculty input. It's like swimming against the tide!

delbertgseasons.bsky.social•18 days ago

Students have cheated since time immemorial. I mean look, this guy in The School of Athens is totally looking at the other guy’s paper.

A huge problem with AI is that you’re copying off somebody who literally hallucinates a lot of the time. At least Wikipedia gives you the sources

josemarichal.bsky.social•18 days ago

Yeah... Puts the onus on us to sell this expanded version of what education is for. If done right, it could be freeing.

jimpharo.bsky.social•18 days ago

They haven't bought in as they have been sold it.

normative.bsky.social•18 days ago

To wit: If it seems likely that writing without AI assistance is likely to be an increasingly unimportant part of a package of marketable job skills (which, sure) it seems like nobody's really explained why they ought to learn it anyway.

sstein.bsky.social•18 days ago

I've explained it, but only to around 20 people at a time.

normative.bsky.social•18 days ago

I wonder if a sort of spiritual egalitarianism makes us uneasy about offering the best defense of a liberal education. Because if the function of education isn’t just job training, but to make you a better person… oh no, what are you implying about people who get less education?

thedextriarchy.bsky.social•18 days ago

I feel like "writing hones your ability to think about ideas clearly and meaningfully" is still pretty compatible with egalitarianism; it's not more of an intrinsic value judgment of a person than saying exercise will make your body stronger

kathykadane.bsky.social•18 days ago

To make you less exploitable, credulous and gullible, in a world dominated by online propaganda.

If you cant write, you cant think.

jackwaltimore.bsky.social•18 days ago

I mean, this has always been the point of making sure that Black schools are as underfunded as possible, to trap liberals between the implications of this problem and our inability to speak them.

jackwaltimore.bsky.social•18 days ago

(and to keep The People down, obviously)

sstein.bsky.social•18 days ago

I try to frame it without the word "better" or a moral component. One function of education is to make people more educated, which has benefits for them and society and is its own worthy goal.

danieldrucker.bsky.social•18 days ago

But isn't that his point? Unless we say 'better', then even if it's _true_ that we'd make them better (that's what improvement is, after all), we still wouldn't say it, thus losing (on this view) one of our most important pitches.

sstein.bsky.social•18 days ago

You can read all those books and take all those classes and be a terrible person anyway.

danieldrucker.bsky.social•18 days ago

I don't think that's responsive. It's not that it always makes people a good person, but rather that education does, in general, improve people, make them better, more thoughtful, etc. Not infallibly, just a general likelihood.

normative.bsky.social•18 days ago

I think that’s probably a part of it, but the simpler explanation is just that “job training” is the easier and more uncontroversial case to make, both to students and when you’re seeking public funding.

sstein.bsky.social•18 days ago

And to students' parents

uneasywriter.bsky.social•18 days ago

I wouldn’t hire anyone who couldn’t write a simple email without calling up a planet-destroying app, but I’m an old weirdo.

chaimkatz47.bsky.social•18 days ago

If any works immediately come to mind: What's your favorite defense of liberal education?

kjephd.bsky.social•18 days ago

Self-development of the Millian variety has no inegalitarianism to it; you're not a better person *than others*, as in the sense of classical virtue, but a better version *of yourself*. Education as self-cultivation is about developing your individuality, not elevating your moral worth over others'

wendynorris.bsky.social•18 days ago

We've got the Bush-era No Child Left Behind debacle to thank for the misguided emphasis on quant testing of children's skill levels. By the time students make it to college, the purpose of education and the joy of learning have been drained from too many of them. 1/2

wendynorris.bsky.social•18 days ago

There's far too much assessment-oriented busy work assigned in college courses disconnected from the serendipity of learning and discovery.

ChatGPT is the go-to crutch for time-crunched, over-worked students who buy into the toxic Do More Faster. I weep for my students and their lost potential. 2/2

justingallivan.bsky.social•18 days ago

As a thought experiment, perhaps some institutions could return(?) to Socratic discussions for the interested few and allow the remainder to obtain some credential in the flavor of the month AI models. Let the market decide which “graduates” are more valuable.

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