I'm not sure why it's that hard to understand why "guy who completely fell apart in his 30s and had serious off-field DV concerns" isn't a no-brainer vote for everyone
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A precedent has to be set at some point. You can’t keep allowing players in who have done shameful things off-field while continuing to prop up a character clause just bc “well so-and-so is in from a century ago!”
We aren’t taking out PED guys but voters have made their decisions clear by now.
The one thing that separates Jones’s off-field issues from a guy like, say, Vizquel (for me, anyhow) is he hasn’t spent the ensuing years denying culpability and seems to have worked to make amends for it. Pretty sure he’s still with his wife even all these years later.
I haven’t really done a deep dive because I don’t have any skin in the game, and I wouldn’t begrudge anybody not willing to look past it, but that’s just what I’ve observed when I looked into it. If I’m wrong and he’s a similarly unrepentant asshole, then sure, keep his ass out.
A lot of people cite the bad behavior of other players who are in the HOF as the rationale for why it shouldn’t be disqualifying today, but shouldn’t societal growth mandate that we no longer do that?
Mike - if Andruw came up at 24 and had his 11 year run and then fell apart at 35, would that make a difference rather than his ages 19-30 run? I think he’s unfairly criticized for being so good so early and falling off.
it's not an unfair point. I think it's the combo of "collapsed" and "might be a bad person." Again: I think he'll get in. I just can't get on board with people who are absolutely stunned he's not in yet.
This happened after he was inducted. And even if it hadn't, Just because it was done in the past doesn't mean it was right and that we should continue to do it
Just showing that HOF isn’t filled with saints. Will be interesting to see if Miguel Cabrera gets the same treatment or does he get a pass because he was a “better” player.
It's a little different, because you couldn't even make a baseball argument against Cabrera. For Jones, you could point to low BA, under 2000 hits, 2nd half fall-off. I'd probably support Jones on a baseball-only basis, but his case is not nearly as strong as Cabrera's.
He will also have the worst batting average of any position player right? .254 is low. Your reasons are better (or actually, worse), but worst BA and sub 2000 hits aren’t nothing.
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We aren’t taking out PED guys but voters have made their decisions clear by now.
Would we feel different if his age 20-22 seasons were in college/minors, but his age 30-32 seasons were stellar?
Honest question (not sure where I land)
Btw- he plead guilty and paid a fine.