Prussia had had no imperial free cities. The East in general consolidated serfdom even as serfdom was weakening (de facto) in western Germany. When Prussia took over Rhineland & Westphalia it was likely a deceleration of ‘normal’ political development in western Germany - ThreadSky

pseudoerasmus.bsky.social • 73 days ago

Prussia had had no imperial free cities. The East in general consolidated serfdom even as serfdom was weakening (de facto) in western Germany. When Prussia took over Rhineland & Westphalia it was likely a deceleration of ‘normal’ political development in western Germany

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phkrause.bsky.social•73 days ago

That's a fascinating question abt the Rhineland at the level of nitty-gritty political institutions. But high-level, probably not. The biggest part of it used to be church land if memory serves, but also massive impact of French reforms via Westphalia & Berg.

phkrause.bsky.social•73 days ago

(Prussia couldn't have had imperial free cities - they would have been Prussian cities. But the Empire had them, and for legal developments, it matters that Prussia and the free cities were part of the same polity)

pseudoerasmus.bsky.social•73 days ago

what I meant was that, as everyone from Adam Smith to Pirenne to Weber observed, the western half of Europe contained many cities/towns along with an urban bourgeoisie, whereas the eastern half of Europe was much less urbanised, which allowed both absolutism to consolidate & serfdom to endure longer

phkrause.bsky.social•73 days ago

I know, I know, I took it literally, not seriously

pseudoerasmus.bsky.social•73 days ago

I think that’s more Whiggish than Sonderweg ;-)

But I don't think it's Sonderweg as long as I'm not arguing that there is a straight line from the late 19th century to the 1930s, and I'm not arguing that.

phkrause.bsky.social•73 days ago

A bit Whiggish maybe... say you're in 1868 and you're looking back to '48. Would you say that France or Germany (the NGF) have made more "progress"? I think (North-)German liberals liked their prospects at the time.

phkrause.bsky.social•73 days ago

Marx wasn't a fan though.

pseudoerasmus.bsky.social•73 days ago

but that's because they wanted German unification as much as, or maybe even more than, liberal political institutions...

pseudoerasmus.bsky.social•73 days ago

Of course France didn't look so good in 1868 but the counterfactual I had suggested was, if Prussia had not expanded territorially westward after 1795, western Germany might have had a more accelerated liberal institutional development. If that's true, then Prussian absorption 'delayed' it

phkrause.bsky.social•73 days ago

Erm, *even* more accelerated? But yes, if Westphalen and Berg had stayed independent (inside the German Bund) post-1815, a lot of history could have gone very differently.

phkrause.bsky.social•73 days ago

Before I start reading up on the Westphalian gov't: The larger point to me remains that FF is far more persuasive than AJR about Prussia being very functional in interstate competition ca. 1688-1848, not in spite of but because of its top-down governance.

pseudoerasmus.bsky.social•73 days ago

I think it's a pretty simple point. The revolutionaries of 1848 were stronger in the west than in the east, but the Prussian annexation of Westphalia & Rhineland as a result of Vienna 1815 brought the conservative reaction westward.

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