https://www.newyorker.com/podcast/the-new-yorker-radio-hour/the-aclu-vs-trump-20?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3-Nf0JOwvjvklXUQY2ew6mvR7UDHqutShMKEd9lkRKtsPSLcSLesRlNPM_aem_va8P9GY5zx3w6fxxdaLiMg
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