If you want to see what a 'winner take all' society looks like, consider something like China, with functionally no social safety net, where access to even basic public services like schools are denied to many poorer workers through the hukou system and where government policy is to depress wages. - ThreadSky

bretdevereaux.bsky.social • 45 days ago

If you want to see what a 'winner take all' society looks like, consider something like China, with functionally no social safety net, where access to even basic public services like schools are denied to many poorer workers through the hukou system and where government policy is to depress wages.

Comments

bretdevereaux.bsky.social•45 days ago

Now if you think the incoming administration is going to about face on previous policy, sure, that's concerning.

But that's a very different concern than "lol, liberalism failed" and it implies very different solutions.

kvoxsky.bsky.social•45 days ago

I'm not so sure, "prevent fascists from taking over and ruining it all" seems like a pretty key test that liberalism absolutely just failed

greenclock.bsky.social•45 days ago

Its not over yet.

bretdevereaux.bsky.social•45 days ago

Compared to what alternative system?

kvoxsky.bsky.social•45 days ago

Absolute monarchy?

Quipping aside, I don't actually have a good answer for this and don't disagree that liberalism was good. I just think November was its death knell and we're going to end up the "winner-take-all" society you were talking about

greenclock.bsky.social•45 days ago

I mean this is kind of not something that gets graded on a curve.

bretdevereaux.bsky.social•45 days ago

All social systems are, in effect, graded on a curve, because "post-scarcity perfectly equal utopia" is not an option. You have a choice between a set of real systems, all of which have tradeoffs and none of which are perfectly stable.

greenclock.bsky.social•45 days ago

That does not change the fact that "not beeing taken over by fascists" seems somewhat Binary as an outcome point.

bretdevereaux.bsky.social•45 days ago

Endlessly comparing a current political or social system against some never-implemented paper ideal is one of those child's philosophies, unfit for serious adults.

Either you have a model to propose - implemented or implementable - or you are blowing hot air.

metabluesky.bsky.social•45 days ago

Even if it was there would still be people who'd organize against it and try to undermine it precisely because such a society would be boring. Fiction is not wrong about that.

dasdoak.bsky.social•45 days ago

Liberalism kicked the shit out of fascism the last time the two had a knock-down, drag-out fight. The scoreboard is still 1-0; the current flight is still ongoing.

kvoxsky.bsky.social•45 days ago

I'm not sure how best to continue the scoreboard analogy when the most powerful nation on Earth just enthusiastically voted in fascists who openly campaigned on never allowing another free election

lamproterotatos.bsky.social•45 days ago

Roughly half voted for them, and many by holding their noses. I get that you want the narrative, but the facts just don't align.

dasdoak.bsky.social•45 days ago

And the people who voted for them were the least informed; people who actually knew what they stand for and were planning on doing opposed them.

dasdoak.bsky.social•45 days ago

These fascists are a bunch of hungry rats who are about to be locked in a cage together, with only a small majority. If you think they'll actually accomplish anything, I'd say you're very optimistic.

Also, most of the people who voted for them didn't do so because they supported ending elections.

dasdoak.bsky.social•45 days ago

Fascist governments tend to be extremely unstable and prone to collapse - and that's without being centered around an 80+ year old dementia patient's cult of personality.

There's still plenty of room to fight and beat them back - this is not over.

bretdevereaux.bsky.social•45 days ago

That difference matters: if you come in arguing that it might be a good idea to reform parts of the liberal system, you might get somewhere.

If you come in arguing the whole thing has been a failure, folks respond by concluding you're right...and electing fascists to destroy it.

ohdeerthermos.bsky.social•45 days ago

What do you mean by no social safety net? Genuine question, actually just curious

seriousgm.bsky.social•45 days ago

I'm not a China expert in any way, shape or form, but (part of) what is referred to is the *hukou*-system (roughly: residency registration). The system as i understand it effectively ties any social safety and services to the place where you are registered...

seriousgm.bsky.social•45 days ago

Notably, the social services in the "glitter cities" are obviously much better than in the provinces. And if you come from the province and want to work in, say, Shanghai, its rather hard to get registered there. Thus, you barely will be able to acess healthcare or even schools

seriousgm.bsky.social•45 days ago

Effectively, a person born in the province thus has the choice between remaining poor in the province or go to the city and effectively be a second-class citizen there (or hope to somehow get re-registered in the city, which, as i understand it, is rather hard).

seriousgm.bsky.social•45 days ago

They had something similar called "Propiska" in the Soviet Union, and a relative of mine actually had to enter a fictional marriage to be able to get registered in Leningrad.

ohdeerthermos.bsky.social•45 days ago

*is it lacking in actual social safety net as a policy or is more of a "reality on the ground" situation?

eafirstlast.bsky.social•45 days ago

Dr Deveraux, you keep speaking on China, but I am not entirely sure you KNOW that much about china, other then the shibboleth of the rival, the enemy of all that is good and free.

Comments

Posting Rules

Reply