"Truth to be debated" Truth is not fixed, it can change with new insights. i.e. Truth or facts only change with more and better data, not debate. The "there is no truth", "alternative facts" etc, are straight out of disinformation playbooks. Create so much confusion that nothing can be trusted. 1/3 - ThreadSky

marcveld.bsky.social • 42 days ago

"Truth to be debated"

Truth is not fixed, it can change with new insights. i.e. Truth or facts only change with more and better data, not debate.
The "there is no truth", "alternative facts" etc, are straight out of disinformation playbooks. Create so much confusion that nothing can be trusted.
1/3

Comments

marcveld.bsky.social•42 days ago

Opinions/interpretations can be debated.

Bad data undermines truth. Here using manipulated images to try and pretend something is correct or normal, which really is not, such as NAZI salutes. It is not even the right hand she used to throw kisses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuU-bT9BJpc&t=258s

2/3

marcveld.bsky.social•42 days ago

To achieve this level of chaos and uncertainty, so people believe what you want them to believe, you need to:
-take over a large media platform ✅
-remove most reliable sources of data: Traditional media and Wikipedia ... ongoing

Do you see it yet?

3/3

fabienne1972.bsky.social•41 days ago

Worth watching...explains a lot...

https://youtu.be/WYQxG4KEzvo?si=qXJe6XQB6Jg-QPLI&t=1284

marcveld.bsky.social•41 days ago

Ben het net aan het kijken!

fabienne1972.bsky.social•41 days ago

👍 goed zo! Ik vind het een neutrale samenvatting, Johnny blijft onpartijdig en benoemt ook het moeilijke verleden van pesterijen en alle goede aspecten in Musk zijn leven. Maar ergens vanaf 2020 is het radicaal misgegaan en daar hebben we nu mee te maken.

monsuta.bsky.social•42 days ago

It's the same event as in the video, a different angle and then flipped. I requested a community note on both X's - it's manipulation for damage control. I think he's either intending fiume's formal greeting or the bellamy salute and troll for maximum exposure

monsuta.bsky.social•42 days ago

i don't think elon musk is of the 'there is no truth' camp, he's of the 'freedom of speech' & XAI alignment camp. he & wpedia cofounder sanger argue wpedia & factchecks are vulnerable to bias&misinformation. community notes with crowd consensus algorithm could be better if properly sourced like gpt4

marcveld.bsky.social•42 days ago

Do you mean that truth is determined by platform users' popular vote, not by observable or measurable facts?

Post: T cells make antibodies.
Popular vote: That is correct.
Consequence: The textbook will be adjusted, all data will be ignored, and B cells will be scrapped.

I see how CNs fail.

monsuta.bsky.social•42 days ago

No, bridging algo based on agreement select users on different sides of spectrum, similar to science. Not perfect, but CN works for covid19 disinfo [0]. Ytube uses it & meta is rolling it out in US
[0] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2818054
https://academic.oup.com/pnasnexus/article/3/7/pgae217/7686087
academics still needed though

marcveld.bsky.social•42 days ago

"select users" How? Based on what? The only criterion is expertise... how do you know that from those "voting"?

"on different sides of spectrum" That is where it goes wrong, truth and facts are not political, there are no sides or spectrum. There is data, observations, methods, measurements, etc.

marcveld.bsky.social•42 days ago

Did it work for SARS-CoV-2, for vaccines or COVID-19? No, it did not, the amount of BS on X is dramatically high. Most CNs do not make it and are voted down by anti-vax groups, Virus deniers, etc.

That some made it at all seems more luck than design.

monsuta.bsky.social•41 days ago

your point: musk doesn't care about truthfulness, i say he's for free expression. you say: it's 'anything goes'; no obj truth stance. I argue against it:
* community notes algo
* limit bots with algos
* paid verification as algo filter to limit bots
* encouraging feedback on open source algos

monsuta.bsky.social•42 days ago

Yes, according to Allen's example notes table it did
& No, it did not prevent or remove all BS on X,
Are contradicting Allen's research findings? X, Google & Meta implementing it for show, not believing in it? I think that'd be conspiratorial view (big tech is always evil)

monsuta.bsky.social•42 days ago

i get that experts are needed to evaluate X's for truthfulness and context, but the point i made is that elon musk cares about combatting disinfo and bots as efficiently as possible, otherwise he would have halted CN as well. you asserted he's just out to kill reliable data and trust in truth

marcveld.bsky.social•42 days ago

I would, based on observations of him posting clear manipulations and falsehoods, have to disagree with that. He uses the platform to manipulate, to push his political agenda. CNs don´t work in most cases, certainly not against his wrong posts: again, he manipulates those and the algorithms.

monsuta.bsky.social•42 days ago

also in science there are different views on which facts are relevant or the reliability of findings, bridging algo still useful.
users: consistent usage, consistent clear & informative notes
reviewers: demonstrate fair judgment when evaluating notes x times
https://communitynotes.x.com/guide/en/under-the-hood/ranking-notes

marcveld.bsky.social•42 days ago

Relevant or reliable is between experts, not a voting audience. These concern truths or facts only if new data is obtained. It goes wrong when the algorithm can be manipulated, giving even more power to the oligarchs.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/nov/14/alarming-convincing-ai-vaccine-and-vaping-disinformation-generated-by-australian-researchers

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2463113-vaccine-misinformation-can-easily-poison-ai-but-theres-a-fix/

luketheduke.bsky.social•42 days ago

😀👍
Good example!

caffeineislife.bsky.social•41 days ago

Censorship like how X's algorithms beat down anything which contradicts what messages Musk wants to see, making them almost impossible to view by people? Shadow banning scientists who ARE actually defending truth and showing their evidence? That's his censorship.

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