To the westerners that want to abolish NATO, sure let's do that, but what's the alternative you are proposing to protect Europe from Russian invasion? Russia isn't going to back down to a few broken windows.
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Sensible westerners do not want to abandon NATO. Unfortunately, it’s seems a slight majority of our nation is not sensible, and in fact, is terrifyingly stupid. Please know there are some of us who care about our NATO Allies and are still fighting over here, trying to make it right.
Oralè Resisters
Russia is expanding
Why not us? Trump
Team debating how much of Mexico they can invade?
He’s not even president yet and he’s starting wars!
@rollingstone.com.web.brid.gy #USDemocracy #TrumpInvadesMexico
I have a theory. Call me crazy but I think Putin and Trump want to cooperatively manage Ukraine. 1. Cornucopia of Natural resources. 2. Putin gets his passageway to the Sea. 3. Trump gets to stare down NATO because he wants to 'own' them. Have I gone off the deep end or does this seem plausible?
Thats the mf problem, the west has no alternative, the conservatives that speak this garbage simply think that our nato withdrawl is just going to be "no longer giving money".
We lose QRF around the world. We lose intel sharing. We hang europe out like jerky.
NATO is the only line of defense for countries like Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Finland, etc.
If countries like Ukraine and Georgia joined sooner they wouldn’t have been invaded as no NATO member has ever been invaded by Russia
There’s no other alternative for these countries
Oh no doubt. But the Ukranians are phenomenal soldiers too. That hasn't stopped them having entire cities demolished by the sheer size and brutality of russias death machine. If Ukraine hadnt been rejected from NATO, Russia wouldnt have invaded.
Yes, but stating ”only line of defense” indicates that there would be no own capabilities and that’s what rubbed me the wrong way. Poland is also AFAIK in good state and ramping up even further. Don’t know about other countries listed. Are those countries in a better state with NATO? Yes, of course.
Oh I get the strong impression Poland would *really* like to get in there and start swinging that chainsaw around, but the rest of NATO has been all "hey, I know you got trauma poland but we'd REALLY like to avoid ww3"
Which is what frusturates me by the "Nato caused this" propaganda. Its actually true, but not for the reason the russiabots claim. Russia invaded because Ukraine WASNT in Nato.
russia won't even be russia much longer. China supports them morally but not enough militarily, I think on purpose because russia is about to collapse and china will buy it all piece by piece.
Abolishing NATO would be such a bad idea... Yes, we might find or create an alternative, but that's not gonna be stronger I think. NATO is not perfect, but it's good and strong and it's getting stronger every day now that countries understand the treat and tribute even more. 🙌
If the US abandons NATO, who would provide Europe's nuclear deterrent? UK relies on us maintenance and Frances is to defend France. Expect nuclear blackmail from Putin.
France has a massive arsenal and can easily service trident, if North Korea can make one with corn husks you bet Europe can ramp up to twice Russians firepower and the 5000 odd Russian warhead how many work and are maintained? I reckon the 4 Putin sees
Russia can barely manage with Ukraine, Poland could easily win a conventianal war with Russia.
And as a reminder Ukraine before 2014 was almost 10% poorer then Poland
Americans have been convinced of isolationism by right-wingers who want power. It's easy to do because foreign policy is too complex for Americans who prefer single phrase answers and instant results. Same with investing in infrastructure and everything else that takes time to yield results.
The westerners that want to abolish NATO, and the westerners who'd gladly bend a knee or two to appease Putin and his brand of authoritarian rule, are the same westerners.
These idiots have no plans for an alternative and it shows their utter contempt and corruption these idiots don't deserve to be be in public office they are there because they stole the election Donald J Trump is not the legitimate president of the United States of America and he never woll be his
How are people so fucking cavalier about abandoning a system of world order that's lasted almost 100 years? It's not perfect, but ffs, the better alternative is to reconfigure into a cynical alliance of anocracies being run by plutocrats?
Know your audience. I’m 100% sure you know this, but no one one here wants to get rid of NATO. That’s X, Facebook, Fox, whatever. We’re with you. Fuck Russia. Spend your time convincing elsewhere.
Dumb people abound. We hear ya, we’re with you, they’re morons and most likely trolls. Somehow by existing Ukraine forced Putin’s hand 👌. A third or so of our country isn’t educated, sadly. It is what it is. None of us are perfect. All I meant, was here is more friendly territory.
People who disagree with warmongering and intentional Western interference with the peace process are not “morons.” In fact, believing the State Dept’s messaging here is nuts.
Investment Capital and defense contractors are raking in profits while the entire Ukrainian economy collapses.
Where you're wrong is thinking they want to protect Europe from russia. No, what they want is for russia to swallow Europe whole and rule it, hoping they'll get to be local satraps. Little they know they'll be first on The List. Ask Girkin.
Yes, the world as we know it would end. It's never been about how to win a war but how to prevent the next one. If Ukraine falls and Russia pushes into NATO territories then that sets events into motion that I don't think people truly have considered the magnitude of how bad it would be
I think we've been in a prelude to World War III for quite some time, and the 'destabilisation of the West' was real, and it worked really well, didn't it?
Russia didn't do all that for a jolly. It was part of a plan. I'm not a conspiracy theorist. This is Humanity, I'm afraid.
The USSR fell in 1989. The invasion/war w/Afghanistan was, in part, their undoing. Putin is threatened & in check by NATO. Putin has dictated Ukraine policy through corrupt officials until the Revolution of Dignity & election of Zelenskyy. 1/
The UK have some 120 deployable warheads, and the French have over 200.
If the US abandons NATO and declares itself neutral, as World War III begins, proper, in Europe and perhaps Taiwan, Putin can't easily just keep pushing West, after taking Ukraine, or we'll melt a third of Russia's cities.
Western Europe - no. But Without NATO, everything east of Germany would get invaded before you could say "Russia does this shit every couple of decades".
Plus the EU can't get rid of daylight savings because they couldn't agree on one time zone, not exactly decision-making masters.
I assume the Russian war machine is pretty thin after Ukraine. they pulled out t-34s from museums and north Korean infantry. they even cleared out the prisons for soldiers. old Stalin move
Stability of this entire region can't be built on assuming Putin will do the smart, logical thing because he's not exactly a sane, reasonable individual.
Just like Stalin, he'd rather see his country burn than give up.
Collectively they have significant strength, but they aren’t a collective military at all, smaller states like Estonia or Latvia could easily get annexed by Russia
Those who want this are pro Axis of Evil or incredibly ignorant, listening too much gurus... pro Axis of Evil for dollars. They only want a new Wrold Order, that's their alternative, aka chaos.
Mainlines (outdated and incomplete, but you get it) :
Ok. Withdraw from security commitments, raise tariffs, drastically cut the deficit and deport millions of refugees. I think the U.S. voted for the end of the dollar standard. I don’t think that is so good for the owners of stocks.
Perhaps the main result from the election is dissatisfaction with a monetary regime that creates huge economic disparities. Throughout the past 200 years, such disparities have only corrected through depression, war and inflation. Buckle up.
Comments
NATO is very useful
Russia is expanding
Why not us? Trump
Team debating how much of Mexico they can invade?
He’s not even president yet and he’s starting wars!
@rollingstone.com.web.brid.gy #USDemocracy #TrumpInvadesMexico
Russia isn't playing checkers, they're playing chess.
We lose QRF around the world. We lose intel sharing. We hang europe out like jerky.
If countries like Ukraine and Georgia joined sooner they wouldn’t have been invaded as no NATO member has ever been invaded by Russia
There’s no other alternative for these countries
I beg to differ as our conscripts are highly performing (https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/u9g9un/us_marines_defeated_by_finnish_conscripts_during/) and our artillery capabilities in Europe are top notch (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVONbjjrcXI).
NATO is there so we wouldn't be alone anymore.
...
Aliens.
They'd save us, wouldn't they?
And as a reminder Ukraine before 2014 was almost 10% poorer then Poland
People who disagree with warmongering and intentional Western interference with the peace process are not “morons.” In fact, believing the State Dept’s messaging here is nuts.
Investment Capital and defense contractors are raking in profits while the entire Ukrainian economy collapses.
Anyone threatening to dismantle NATO or weaken it is playing a pisspoor strategy. Or just wants to watch the world burn.
Old guard needs retirement though, globally.
Rich people prefer to make money in peace, trading.
... that would mean there'd be no USA v Russia MAD.
The UK and France have over 300 nukes, and we could hold Europe with them.
I think one or two would be used, like our last Nuclear War, WWII.
Russia didn't do all that for a jolly. It was part of a plan. I'm not a conspiracy theorist. This is Humanity, I'm afraid.
If the US abandons NATO and declares itself neutral, as World War III begins, proper, in Europe and perhaps Taiwan, Putin can't easily just keep pushing West, after taking Ukraine, or we'll melt a third of Russia's cities.
Plus the EU can't get rid of daylight savings because they couldn't agree on one time zone, not exactly decision-making masters.
Just like Stalin, he'd rather see his country burn than give up.
Mainlines (outdated and incomplete, but you get it) :