My group visited the episcopalian national cathedral, and I really think the American support for Israel really is some deep Seated religious belief. Not even the prot sensibility that the nation of Israel is the biblical Israel, but more that the American mythos is bound up in Israel. - ThreadSky

kalanthropos.bsky.social • 7 days ago

My group visited the episcopalian national cathedral, and I really think the American support for Israel really is some deep Seated religious belief. Not even the prot sensibility that the nation of Israel is the biblical Israel, but more that the American mythos is bound up in Israel.

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cortextual.bsky.social•6 days ago

I don't get this impression at all at the Episcopal churches I have attended and attend. On the contrary, some parishioners are very keen on a just peace in Palestine, long before the current genocide in Gaza. My current parish is Anglo-Catholic.

contemplativeinthemud.com•7 days ago

Dunno if a helpful perspective. Many Indigenous people point out that in long-standing U.S. mythos, they’re Canaanites & America the promised land. This naturally finds affinity with similar instances. But the Israeli parallel is super special. It goes: ancient Israel -> U.S. -> modern Israel.

kalanthropos.bsky.social•7 days ago

Oh I definitely think it's Bad that Americans think they are Israel, and definitely Bad to treat indigenous peoples as Canaanites

bigblobape.bsky.social•7 days ago

tbh that's an interesting idea and one that makes sense
I thought it was b/c of sympathy for the Holocaust (and a sense that Israel is "like us" b/c it's - supposedly - a western democracy in the Middle East)

kalanthropos.bsky.social•7 days ago

No it predates the holocaust by quite a bit. And the US being the "new Israel" jives quite well with the historical antisemitism.

bigblobape.bsky.social•7 days ago

right but I don't think America really got around to supporting *Zionism* until after 1945 and the Jewish DP crisis that occurred almost immediately afterwards

sosayweall7.bsky.social•5 days ago

It goes back to the Pilgrims.

kalanthropos.bsky.social•5 days ago

I wish our patriotism could have been chill and normal, rather than thinking we are the heirs to all the greatest civilizations on earth or in heaven

kalanthropos.bsky.social•7 days ago

Maybe this is like the most obvious thing to you mid Atlantic Catholics, but I hadn't considered this at all. I think it's a bipartisan, established part of American patriotism. And being outside of that mindset makes you "unpatriotic"

kalanthropos.bsky.social•5 days ago

Also, was amused by the contrast, visiting the basilica national shrine this morning. There were several masses going on at once, people praying all over. The episcopal church was like a whitewashed tomb.

kalanthropos.bsky.social•5 days ago

Docent at the episcopal church kept trying to say how the place was inclusive and welcoming to everyone. Rang kinda hollow. Especially compared to all the Marian chapels from around the world at the shrine

jakeall.bsky.social•5 days ago

It’s a wild contrast.

Basilica = free parking, free entrance, multiple ethnicities and ages praying all over

Nat. Cathedral = $20 parking, admission fee, tour groups

kalanthropos.bsky.social•5 days ago

Ugh. Everything about the trip was handled through the travel agency so I didn't realize the cathedral charged for everything

jakeall.bsky.social•5 days ago

This is the cathedral that charged people for tickets to Christmas liturgies and changed it to voluntary recommended donations after massive outcry.

But yeah, just stepping foot in the church is $15 per person (as Jesus intended)

jakeall.bsky.social•5 days ago

This is also why I’ve been to basically every notable Catholic Church in London (free) and refuse to go into the Anglican ones (entrance fee)

notofassisi.bsky.social•7 days ago

yeah, this is a thing, though my impression growing up mainline was that it was stronger in evangelical circles than mainline. moberley’s book on the theology of genesis has an interesting chapter on it though it’s been years so i don’t remember everything he says

kalanthropos.bsky.social•7 days ago

I think it's deeply rooted even in extremely secular Americans, like it's why politicians who are otherwise pretty areligious are like "we must protect Israel at all costs"

notofassisi.bsky.social•7 days ago

also: welcome to the hellscape, may your stay be as fire-free as possible

afarrell.bsky.social•7 days ago

If one spends any amount of time in evangelical, non-denominational, etc. circles, this is basically unquestioned. It’s only been in the last few years that I’ve seen the underlying assumptions start to be challenged. (Excluding some like N.T. Wright.)

afarrell.bsky.social•7 days ago

That’s before you get into the messiness that “American Christianity” is not the eschaton 🙄

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