As always: please note that this thread discusses what the law actually is, independent of any of my thoughts about what the law should be, which are irrelevant to the actual law and the prevailing zeitgeist of what is charged and prosecuted.
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One addition I feel is worth mentioning in regards to the US is that if you're in Oregon you're likely more safe in this regard thanks to State v Henry ruling that criminalized obscenity is unconstitutional for violating free speech https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_v._Henry
State law unfortunately does not trump federal law, and §1466A is a federal law where both trial and conviction happen federally; that precedent doesn't apply.
Yep, forum shopping is totally a thing, especially in obscenity cases -- there's a long tradition of prosecuting things that are available nationally in the most conservative areas of the country.
Back in the 90s during the era of the CDA we all hoped the internet would mean the "community" for the "contemporary community standards" would wind up meaning the internet as a whole and instead we got litigation tourism, sigh.
Thanks! None of this is particularly relevant to me personally, but I did find it super informative and interesting to understand especially in a context where we might see an expansion of laws that function similarly in the coming years.
Get me going in a thread where I am not scrupulously adhering to the "describing things as they currently are with no editorial comment" standard and I will scream about a *billion* things, heh.
To the point they are already have there minds made up because as said
To the average uncultured viewer who knows nothing about anime and it's deep workings they would think "oh child" when seeing drawings of fictional charecters with out a second thought
The justification they have settled on for that is "oh he also committed sexual assault against his wife and they just wanted to throw the book at him, surely *I* will never get convicted because I am not a Bad Person like him", sigh. (I blocked most of them so they probably won't show.)
Indistinguishablity is how they apply the child pornography 1st Amendment exception. 1466A was specifically written to bypass that requirement by relying on the obscenity exception instead. It can apply to any artistic depiction, indistinguishable or not.
That in itself is the issue it can be applied to anything they deemed obscene it's why the law is not extremely enforced or you would see tvshows being hot video games everything because it applies to everything
There's plenty of loli/shota anime and manga that doesn't pass that test. Yes, it is easier to pass the test if you have a complete story. No, it is not a universal shield.
Since you refuse to listen to lawyers and experts, go look up the name "Thomas Alan Arthur."
Yk, I hate to be "that guy", but I cannot help but think that whenever subjects like loli, shota, and cub porn come up, it's usually met with exactly the same treatment and adversity that minority groups in the US not only have faced in the past, but that they currently face today.
People oftentimes think that the point is to normalize pedophilia, and that may be true to a certain extent and understandably reviled to that extent, but it's also to point out just how nuanced and complex these subjects can get, when we're talking about material that isn't explicitly CP.
Add onto that groups like MAPs who go about "spreading awareness" of sex & paraphilia disorders in the WAY wrong way, and you have yourself situations like this one, where the inevitable conclusion leads to people feeling forced to "take a stand" and "choose a side".
The reality is, a lot of people who would normally consume and are "into" this sort of material cannot help the way they feel, and are also subject to discrimination, because their attraction is seen as "unnatural" by those who don't understand it, and to a certain extent rightly so.
I really don't think that not being allowed to post media that is potentially pedophilic on social media is discrimination. No one is suggesting policing attraction itself here, it's about publicly posted content.
It isn't just "on social media" - it's literally everywhere online that this type of content is being censored, which unfortunately, ends up creating a sort of black market in the place of the actual thing. And you can't "fix" something you don't understand.
As you've said, this material gets treated very unfavorably under the eyes of the law, and it's because they often assume things about the subject matter that may or may not even be true to begin with. It's like you said, it shouldn't be a moderator's job to determine what is or isn't CSAM.
two and a half days of you fucking people asking me to find you a scenario where you are not committing a felony that risks 20 years in federal prison per piece of artwork depicting an apparent minor engaged in explicit sexual conduct is more than fucking enough, people
I am not the fucking obscenity whisperer and you are not fucking going to magically find a scenario in which I am going to say that YOUR art of an apparent minor engaged in explicit sexual conduct is totes okay and nobody is ever going to come for you over it, because that scenario does not exist
I am more than a little sick of you all trying to posit increasingly wild excuses for why all THOSE prosecutions has an excuse and all THOSE people who went to jail were Bad People and if you're not a Bad Person YOUR art of a minor engaged in sexually explicit conduct will be perfectly fine
Stop fucking commenting at me like I'm your fucking priest, this is not a fucking confessional and BELIEVE IT OR NOT I do not fucking like my mentions constantly fucking being full of questions about this as you all fucking process the fact everyone has fucking lied to you about the law
I don't fucking like US law either! You don't fucking have to like it! You don't fucking have to believe it is fucking fair, or just, or rational! You fucking especially do not have to fucking argue with me that it's not fair or just or rational! Believe me, I fucking know FAR BETTER THAN YOU DO.
You have just learned about this absurdity of US 1A law! I have been fighting the absurdity of US 1A law as it applies to the internet since BEFORE THIS LAW EXISTED! I have a THIRTY FUCKING YEAR HEAD START ON YOU, please fucking stop exhaustively enumerating the ways US law is absurd at me
People really need to start treating the internet like it’s actually Main Street in their town. If you open a “Sexually explicit life-like minor drawings emporium” you’re probably gonna get run out of town at the bare minimum.
since I have apparently decided to abandon the is/ought wall this morning: there IS some scientific evidence that indicates drawn material is a harm reduction technique and reduces the likelihood of someone committing offenses against an actual child, the problem is --
--that it's not *strong* scientific evidence because it's almost impossible to study this sort of thing ethically and with sufficient scientific rigor and the vast majority of the people trying to do the work are starting from a preconceived ideological premise that you have to correct for
(This is independent of the fact that many of the people who are producing such material are doing so not out of an innate attraction to minors but as a form of processing their own childhood abuse, etc, which is another complicating factor that's hard to control for)
Yes, the state of other law and regulation makes it extremely difficult to study this sort of thing. On the other hand, judges and legislators are famously innumerate and scientifically illiterate, so it might not matter lol
whaaaaa i can't believe it. You spelled out that completely drawn art like that is illegal in the sense that juries'll convict you, huh. Wooow. I guess u need to be from Japan then to host this stuff? Like pixiv does?
also, is l0l1 fanfiction able to give anyone life sentences?
I will talk your ear off about this job! A lot of us *can't*, because of confidentiality requirements or company policy or fear of retaliation or bad reaction, but I work for myself and give zero fucks, so I can be a lot more open. I still won't talk nonpublic incidents from my site, but.
(interested in both, knowing about* the "gross" stuff is important, too much is whitewashed and I think this (false sense of "nothing bad, here) ruins our world/perception...)
*I had seeing there. Changed it. May not be the bubble wrap type, but the other one
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Handley
Worst. Apple product. Ever.
Considering they also adress drawings specifically
Here; https://www.justice.gov/criminal/criminal-ceos/citizens-guide-us-federal-law-child-pornography
Has to be indistinguishable and identified as
It's why in a case of a argument it doesn't apply because of its outdated nature
Unless as said by people in comments ststed the jury is in a biased and unfavorable state
To the average uncultured viewer who knows nothing about anime and it's deep workings they would think "oh child" when seeing drawings of fictional charecters with out a second thought
It's one reason anime--
Everything is getting thrown in people's faces all at once
Thank you for covering this but in this case obscenity laws are rarely enforced because of how outdated they are compared--
If it didn't i wouldn't be able to order hentai or manga and anime online to begin with or own anything there off
Since you refuse to listen to lawyers and experts, go look up the name "Thomas Alan Arthur."
I won't speak to the kink itself (because not a psychologist), but OPSEC when one is into legally-dicey kinks just seems obvious?
I would be aggravated too.
also, is l0l1 fanfiction able to give anyone life sentences?
Happy to stay for the education
(interested in both, knowing about* the "gross" stuff is important, too much is whitewashed and I think this (false sense of "nothing bad, here) ruins our world/perception...)
*I had seeing there. Changed it. May not be the bubble wrap type, but the other one