I feel this, but "Souls-like" labels trigger the NOPE for me.
Most things tagged with "rogue-like" these days are simple games with perma-death and repetitive loops, rather than something more traditional like Caves of Qud.
That’s tragic, is it more of a wanting a single player campaign thing or more of a not like the gameplay feel of rogue-likes? I think Hades manages to strike a good middle ground.
I have this but with online games / mmos and especially mobile games. However, since Hades, my opinion's on rogue-likes massively shifted, but not enough to try all the copies. Hades is goated, though!
Feel the same with risk of rain 2 and crab champion ?
Others like gunfire where I really have to do 50 runs to be able to play the game don't do it for me but ror2 and crab get me good
I can relate, seems most want to jump on trends so now everything goes the rogue-like way, which it doesn't work with every genre imo; for RPGs it can be fine, but not every RPG should be that way either.
As a roguelike-lover I totally get this. Some games are built well for repetition, others stray from it without committing enough to another concept (Cult of the Lamb imo).
i like them from time to time but theyre extremely quickly becoming one of the most oversaturated genre of games next to metroidvania (probably not a coincidence that a lot of people are trying to combine the two either)
Same but 1 exception. Nine Sol. Something about the 2d instead of 3d world plus the really well executed difficulty curve and controls made it worthwhile. Also Hollow Knight, They call it a souls like but it's nothing like a souls game IMHO.
Idk that used to be me until I got my ps5 and played hades and returnal. They were so good at what they did it made me forget my annoyance of having to do something over and over again and instead made me more excited to see how the story develops.
I do tend to wonder with how Supergiant told the stories of their first 3 games, how you can really do they want to do with Zagreus and Melinoe in that manner. For me, Bastion, Transistor, and a little bit of Pyre have such memorable narratives, but both the Hades not so much.
"Hades is roguelikes for people who don't like roguelikes" but it's not like it does anything real different from other roguelikes? Like narrative justification sure but for me personally, it doesn't change that roguelikes can become pretty damn demoralizing.
And i was cool with Hades, i think it's fine, i just really don't need to play it again. I had to power through it in God Mode because the repetition really loses it's luster after the nth time.
I loved Hades...but yeah--I no longer have the time or patience to continuously replay the same game. Supergiant added "God Mode" specifically for that reason. Dead Cells did something similar, but with more options.
As someone who loves Hades 1 and 2, the repetition is the point. They're skill building games, fun because you can see yourself getting better at a specific obstacle course. I'm not even sure how the boons system would work in a game without resetting periodically, they'd have to nerf everything.
Can I ask, how did you feel about the characters slowly evolving each run?
If you just wanted to finish the game and see the ending than I totally understand why you powered through but I think what sets Hades apart is the character development. It felt like each return to the mansion was unique.
I think when people say that they’re more referring to how you get more story, lore, and conversations, and meta-progression after every run win or lose rather than just the narrative justification for the roguelike.
For me, it's when I see a trailer for something that looks badass with engaging gameplay elements on par with something like Doom... And then I Google it and it's a fucking Battle Royale. Seeing those two words are an automatic fail for me and my wife. They are stale, unappealing and redundant.
I honestly can't remember the name of it, but it has this really cool fully animated trailer promising a He Man like adventure, and then it's just a derivative rogue like
I would be annoyed with this assessment except this is me with skinned action titles….see: Spider-Man or as I like to call it, Ninja Gaiden wannabe #6,342
I'm not gonna sugarcoat it, this whole thread feels like a skill issue. Like the repetitive nature of the roguelike genre I can understand not liking, but a bunch you keep bringing up stuff about never getting past the first stage because it's difficult.
Most bad and over saturated roguelikes front load the first area with difficulty to force replay and can get really samey. Even good ones can do it if you’re not getting good multipliers, skills, weapons, or even upgrades. Sometimes a run is just doomed and some people don’t like that.
I actually can’t name any frontloaders because I avoid them. They’re usually the indie games I have friends recommend where the selling point is how needlessly difficult the game starts. Which just sounds like a hassle and personally not like a good time.
I shit you not as an avid roguelike lover, I can't really think of any bad ones aside from ones that get samey due to genre saturation (take battle shapers for example, great game but it's far too much like roboquest) which isn't inherently bad. Maybe Issac? That's definitely more of a skill issue.
I think it’s just rare for a roguelike to be captivating to a normal audience save for the few break outs like Hades. They’re all the same and part of the gameplay loop is dying and starting over not a lot of people like that. I know I don’t really anymore
To summarize: Played Crypt of the Necrodancer for a few hours and 90% of my time was in the boring first world because of the repetitive nature of Roguelikes. Didn’t get to see much else of the game.
Same happened to me, I liked the game but I can't say I saw much of it.
I happened with Enter The Gungeon too, padding numbers with an eternal stage 1.
I'm not gonna lie, crypt of the necrodancer's issue isn't that it's a roguelike. The issue comes from it being a rhythm game and most people suck at those.
i thought i was the only one who didn't like roguelikes lol
i just don't get it all. I can tolerate the beginning when i'm figuring out how everything works, but once i get past that and actually have to repeatedly do the same thing over and over again with different modifiers i stop having fun
People talk about how video games now are mostly open-worlds(which is far from the truth). But the reality is, Rogue-likes/lites are dominating everything.
Even games that aren't have done DLCs expansions that are rogue. Just why?! I hate it here.
It really depends on the game, but for the first 10-15 hours I was having fun with Hades, but as I approached the end and died, I started to hate the game and I’ve never played it since
I suppose if you want to use the classical use of the term them yeah its not a roguelike. But nowadays the distinction is more so if a game has permanent progression or not(Like vs Lite) rather than if it's a grid based dungeon crawler.
That is how the tag is commonly used, but by following that logic, every game with collectible coins and a save function could be described as a "Mario-like" or "-lite."
Big facts!!! Now Dave the Diver is rouge like but it’s chill about and it’s not that hard. But all the other games, it’s just tiresome about it. Not never hame habe to be rouge-like
I can’t relate sorry, what can I say, I’m a sucker for repeating the same gameplay loop with minor changes? (Looks at my 200 hours of Enter The Gungeon)
You’re right. I called out MMOs specifically because I have friends constantly trying to sell me on FF14 but I’m always like “I’d LOVE this game if I didn’t have to play this online with people” lol
Same with souls like mechanics. I really want to enjoy beautiful games like Hollow Knight, but the run backs and losing my money(and time) after dying just kills me. Playing with a guide helps tho
Maybe try being less of a little whiny bitch about it on the internet and enjoy the game for what it is rather than your preconceived biases based on genre
Hades is genuinely the only rogue-like I can enjoy and even it’s on thin ice. I have to put it down every few months before I can find enjoyment out of it again
It depends on the game. Hades was my GOTY for 2020, I have a love-hate relationship with Dead Cells (it's assist mode will never not be peak though), I adore Enter The Gungeon, and GoW: Valhalla manages to transplant it's gameplay into a roguelike pretty well.
For me it's the looter shooter. I LOVE Arpgs and nerdy number crunchers and I LOVE shooters that take skill or are immersive. Watering down both halves in order to get bullet sponge enemies with stats that go little beyond the "Power Level" number is endlessly infuriating.
I was always confused with the repetition criticism for roguelikes. Almost every game has some level of "do same action in somewhat different spaces with slowly growing powers".
How different is a Skyrim quest line from a Hades run when you boil it down? What's the key ingredient lost in that boil?
Me but with open world games.
Here's a cool looking world, sick fights, story and so on.
Actual gameplay: Ah yes. The next mission is only 6k meters away from me. Time for another 10 minute walk to then have fun for 3.
Comments
At least there's so many games being made that something should come out that appeals to anyone's particular tastes.
I just cannot be bothered.
That’s bad? 😢
Most things tagged with "rogue-like" these days are simple games with perma-death and repetitive loops, rather than something more traditional like Caves of Qud.
Others like gunfire where I really have to do 50 runs to be able to play the game don't do it for me but ror2 and crab get me good
They're usually not "Souls-like" and more "action game that the creator happens to like Soulsborne".
I don't think it's nowhere near as rampant of a problem as you guys think
And everyone will say “but it’s the exception!”
I don’t care. Its now lower priority!
Cuz like you said. Narrative justification is cute and all, but the repetition is STILL there lol.
If you just wanted to finish the game and see the ending than I totally understand why you powered through but I think what sets Hades apart is the character development. It felt like each return to the mansion was unique.
Souls-like though... Instant pass.
I happened with Enter The Gungeon too, padding numbers with an eternal stage 1.
i just don't get it all. I can tolerate the beginning when i'm figuring out how everything works, but once i get past that and actually have to repeatedly do the same thing over and over again with different modifiers i stop having fun
Even games that aren't have done DLCs expansions that are rogue. Just why?! I hate it here.
Curious what you dislike about them?
The Forever Winter looks extremely my shit but fuck playing with other people.
Doesn’t mean I can’t enjoy a game in the genre (I love One Step From Eden). Just don’t prefer it
I wanna see my guy! Lemme see the guy I made! Footwear is very important to my immersion!
I'm not a big fan of run & jump platformers, but there's no denying the quality of design.
Unless it's an adaptation of a card game, DO NOT USE CARD DECK MECHANICS
Same with souls like mechanics. I really want to enjoy beautiful games like Hollow Knight, but the run backs and losing my money(and time) after dying just kills me. Playing with a guide helps tho
Pass.
How different is a Skyrim quest line from a Hades run when you boil it down? What's the key ingredient lost in that boil?
Not a troll, BTW, I'm genuinely interested.
I'm a fiend for the "just one more run"
Here's a cool looking world, sick fights, story and so on.
Actual gameplay: Ah yes. The next mission is only 6k meters away from me. Time for another 10 minute walk to then have fun for 3.