Energy ppl talk about dynamic energy prices to reflect costs and incentivise best use of renewables London’s Soho talks about dynamic beer prices to reflect ‘the late night market’. www.bbc.co.uk/news/article... - ThreadSky

louisesunderland.bsky.social • 110 days ago

Energy ppl talk about dynamic energy prices to reflect costs and incentivise best use of renewables

London’s Soho talks about dynamic beer prices to reflect ‘the late night market’.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g2z6405zpo

Comments

adrianhiel.bsky.social•110 days ago

You won't catch me paying £9.40 for a pint in a plastic cup!
(Which nicely proves your point, doesn't it?)

louisesunderland.bsky.social•110 days ago

I was waiting for someone to point out the price. And it’s for lager Adrian, not Belgian beer!

adrianhiel.bsky.social•110 days ago

mind-boggling!

louisesunderland.bsky.social•110 days ago

But, of course, pricing isn't the whole answer to unlock household energy flexibility. #dsf

As @sophieyulebennett.bsky.social and I set out in out paper 'The Joy of Flex' 😉

https://www.raponline.org/knowledge-center/joy-flex-embracing-household-demand-side-flexibility-power-system-resource-europe/

sophieyulebennett.bsky.social•108 days ago

As you once said, pricing is JUST the icing. It's the cost of serving energy needs over time that impacts bills. Granular elec pricing must be twinned with the ABILITY (technologies, services, offers, agency) to shift energy uses into low cost, low carbon periods in an easy, stress-free way ⚡

louisesunderland.bsky.social•110 days ago

Pricing is even more of a blunt tool when we think about how low-income or #vulnerable households can get value from their #flexibility. As we explored in 'Flex-ability for All'

https://www.raponline.org/knowledge-center/flex-ability-for-all-pursuing-socially-inclusive-demand-side-flexibility-europe/

@regassistproj.bsky.social

destenie.bsky.social•106 days ago

Love that this includes the piece about not sacrificing comfort! Here is a method my students and I developed to use meter data to find those that are uncomfortable in their homes because they are limiting their energy use to save money on their bills. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301421523003336

frankreif.bsky.social•110 days ago

Besides washing/drying machines, few loads are significant enough to load shift.
Without storage, flex tariffs don't really make sense, all you get is more variable billing, annual costs should be the same.

l-bow.bsky.social•104 days ago

Time of use helps to discourage morning and evening rapid warm-up with heat pumps, which would be a much more expensive heating pattern to provide for than continuous. And of course keeping EVs off-peak is crucial.

louisesunderland.bsky.social•110 days ago

Agree that it’s the big, non-time, sensitive loads we should focus on, enabled by storage and controls/automation. On the storage side I’m interested in getting more sense of what different bldg fabric thermal qualities provide what level of comfort over what time period…feels important to hp flex

louisesunderland.bsky.social•110 days ago

Oh! And hot water is a good one. Great stuff being done by EnergyCloud in Ireland. Using thermal storage in hot water tanks to absorb wind that would have been curtailed. To benefit social housing tenants. 🙂

https://energycloud.org

sophieyulebennett.bsky.social•108 days ago

Absolutely! Elec hot water/heating charging in housing blocks = untapped source of flex value. Tenants paying for 'heat with rent' aren't direct energy customers so can't switch tariffs to access savings. We need to overcome agency barriers to unlock value w/o sacrificing cost predictability 1/2

frankreif.bsky.social•110 days ago

Yes! Over on twitter the bot quietly reminded how many hot water tanks could have been charged with curtailed energy. Simple but effective reminder.

frankreif.bsky.social•103 days ago

This seems to be what you're looking for:
https://www.nesta.org.uk/report/heatflex-the-untapped-potential-of-automated-heat-pump-flexibility/

I don't blame you if you've muted this thread already, we went off further down.

louisesunderland.bsky.social•102 days ago

Ah yes, I was listening to the launch webinar yesterday.
Great proof of concept. Impressive results. Small sample and without comparison of different fabric performance, which I’d love to be the next step… @nestauk.bsky.social??🙏

frankreif.bsky.social•110 days ago

How much do you know about the history of passive house design?

For a good 40 years the building's thermal inertia was a core design principle. They've now largely moved on.

There's not a lot of scope to use it without compromising comfort.

louisesunderland.bsky.social•104 days ago

I know a little about Passivhaus, less than I should. It's the gold standard. I'm interested in how long dwellings with less insulation and air tightness keep ppl comfy when heating is turned down. My RAP colleague co-authored a study for Polish homes
https://tinyurl.com/y3kh896y
Is there anything similar?

destenie.bsky.social•106 days ago

One other thing that I'd add to the flexibility is to understand who is currently limiting their energy consumption to save money on their bills and then allow these homes to participate in demand response via using cooling and heating when renewable output is high.

louisesunderland.bsky.social•104 days ago

Hello Destinie, yes, this kind of 'turn up' prog - where households get a benefit from using more electricity at times of abundance - is the sort of thing I think we should be exploring. There's a pilot in the South of UK and EnergyCloud in Ireland. Do you know of any others?

louisesunderland.bsky.social•104 days ago

Another Q is how to design programmes (eg utility progs) to incentivise flexibility, avoiding encouraging people to further ration. 1st thing we think is to ensure flex is technology derived rather than socially derived. Inspired by this fantastic f'work 👏 Gareth Powells & @mikefsway.bsky.social

destenie.bsky.social•104 days ago

I think 1 of the 1st steps is to make programs designed with the technological capabilities of the homes, or provide ways to overcome technology hurdles. Lot of programs discussions are based on thermostat usage, but many homes don't have thermostats for summer because they use window units or fans.

destenie.bsky.social•104 days ago

Finding these homes without flex tech can be a challenge but luckily with meter data we have shown it's easier to find who doesn't have working AC units. We can also find who is rationing their cooling usage and then target them for assistance.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301421523003981

destenie.bsky.social•104 days ago

In the US people have described this type of program as precooling homes. Also heard this being talked about as "using homes as thermal energy storage. I don't know of a US program where this is being implemented through.
https://techxplore.com/news/2023-10-pre-cooling-homes-energy-usage.html

louisesunderland.bsky.social•104 days ago

That's a great explainer.
If preheating or cooling, it's also about keeping temps constant enough that ppl don't notice the change during down or off. I think on av ppl start to feel the difference at 1-1.5 C change. I'm interested to see how people feel about the change in heat/cooling schedule

andhalse.bsky.social•104 days ago

Euroflex is trying to do this in Norway. Not exactly for households, more aimed at industry.
There was a BBC segment on the project:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWrpgTnBlQs&ab_channel=%C3%85Energi
Tibber, the Norwegian equivalent to Octopus, also does something similar for households with its program Tibber rewards.

louisesunderland.bsky.social•104 days ago

that's a beautiful video to explain the roles of the end user (big and small), grid, retailer aggregator and markets.

destenie.bsky.social•104 days ago

Thanks for sharing this. Great info

cynan.bsky.social•110 days ago

a pub with an Unhappy Hour?

It’s a bold strategy, Cotton…
let’s see if it pays off for them

louisesunderland.bsky.social•110 days ago

🤣🤣🤣

dbynum.bsky.social•110 days ago

So do taxis and ride-sharing charge more after the expensive pints too?

louisesunderland.bsky.social•110 days ago

I’m not an expert on the Soho late night economy but I expect yes 😅

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