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mostlymartha.bsky.social • 111 days ago

I like this very much.

patriotism should be liberal-coded anyway, America is an idea and that idea is multicultural pluralistic liberal democracy

it belongs to us, not them

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mostlymartha.bsky.social•111 days ago

The Civil Rights Movement did incredible work with the idea that just because America HAS belonged to assholes doesn't mean it MUST belong to assholes. We have as much a right to it as anyone.

exxzackly.bsky.social•110 days ago

Me too

ofvick.bsky.social•111 days ago

Asking as eirenically as I can, what is liberal patriotism even trying to achieve beyond the same sort of self-contented bullshit that gave us Trumpism?

mostlymartha.bsky.social•111 days ago

Most people need organizing principles and a clear purpose. "Do your part to do what's right for the most people" isn't sufficient; it's too abstract and it makes people lazy. "It can't happen here" is a big part of how we got here.

mostlymartha.bsky.social•111 days ago

Admittedly, I am something of a Constitution nerd, but I think organizing a society around intention and ideas is better (or at least no worse) than doing it around religion, accidents of geography, or ancient ethnostate tribalism a la Europe.

mostlymartha.bsky.social•111 days ago

Belief in something big puts gas in a lot of people's tanks, especially when shit gets hard. Patriotism as a promise of what we can be -- as opposed to some stupid idealized notion of what the founders intended -- doesn't strike me as the worst idea.

mostlymartha.bsky.social•111 days ago

And again, I look to the Civil Rights Movement, and I see how claiming a stake in that promise of what America could be was very powerful and motivating. I'd like a sip of that juice.

ofvick.bsky.social•111 days ago

I see your point here; where I'm coming from is that I think that intention and ideal involves consistent antifascism as a cornerstone of freedom, which is a lofty and noble idea in keeping with the vibes of the Greatest Generation and radically at odds with the USA as it'll be henceforth.

aih.bsky.social•111 days ago

I kind of feel that calling this shit "the USA as it'll be henceforth" is kind of surrendering in advance, though. Like, if the USA is irredeemable and unfixable, then what's the point of trying anything at all?

mostlymartha.bsky.social•111 days ago

This is about where I end up. It's audacious and maybe impossible, but I'm one of those people who needs a vision to work for, or I'll walk into the sea.

ofvick.bsky.social•111 days ago

"To replace a fascist regime with a nonfascist successor state" seems sensible enough to me.

The case against USian redemption and reparability should be immediately obvious but I'm willing to make it more clearly tomorrow when I have time.

miclugo.bsky.social•111 days ago

This should be easy, one of our national symbols is a statue with a poem saying “don’t be an asshole”

brainw.bsky.social•111 days ago

i wish i could still believe this but i dont anymore

mostlymartha.bsky.social•111 days ago

It's a very hard thing to do right now.

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